Why do so many people love Spike so much?

[Switch]

Spike was at his best when he had Angel to play off of. Too bad Angel (the italics mean I'm talking about the show ) didn't last beyond Season 5.

Spike vs. Angel was fun, but I think it'd just about run its course by the time the series ended.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Yeah, Spike made Angel watchable but that was about it.

 

[Lonemagpie]

The thing that people bring up often is his attempted rape of Buffy. Yeah, that was a dark indefensible moment. The thing that people fail to mention, though, is that Spike himself knew that. He was so disgusted with himself afterward that he left, and went through some seriously painful trials in order to regain his soul, and ensure that he would not do something so terrible again.

It was also a shallow and shameless acknowledged attempt by the writers to stop people liking him, even at the cost of fucking up the arc they'd done.

 

[DevilEyes]

The thing that people bring up often is his attempted rape of Buffy. Yeah, that was a dark indefensible moment. The thing that people fail to mention, though, is that Spike himself knew that. He was so disgusted with himself afterward that he left, and went through some seriously painful trials in order to regain his soul, and ensure that he would not do something so terrible again.

It was also a shallow and shameless acknowledged attempt by the writers to stop people liking him, even at the cost of fucking up the arc they'd done.

No, it wasn't. The intent was, as acknowledged by the writers, to give him motivation to decide to get a soul, so they decided that they had to have him do something that he would be horrified about.

If the intention had been to 'stop people liking him', that doesn't explain why he was portrayed very sympathetically in that episode, hell, even in that scene. He didn't even seem to realize what he was doing and was shown to feel so guilty about it. (I find it interesting that, according to James Marsters, that incident was inspired by a real life experience of one of the female writers, who was the rapist in that scenario - she tried to force herself on her ex-boyfriend after he dumped her, convinced that he will love her again if they had sex one more time.)

Plus, why the hell would they want for people to stop liking him?

And as I said, I find it funny when people say that he became unlikeable that moment - like he hadn't done far worse in the past. Even in S6 he still thought it would be OK to bite a stranger as soon as he believed his chip wasn't working.

Spike was at his best when he had Angel to play off of. Too bad Angel (the italics mean I'm talking about the show ) didn't last beyond Season 5.

Spike vs. Angel was fun, but I think it'd just about run its course by the time the series ended.

Yeah, it was obvious in the second part of the season that they really couldn't find anything for him to do, except hang out in Wolfram & Hart for no reason and be buddies with Angel. It would've been better if they had had him guest star in several episodes at the beginning and then leave, which from what I've heard was Whedon's intention, but the network wanted him to be a regular.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

Eh, he was fun. Guess I'm easily amused.

 

[saturn5]

Straight girls love a bad boy whom they can change for the better (all the more so if their sister fancied him first). Spike fits the bill in every respect

 

[label]

I liked him just fine until he got Buffy-whipped and then he was hit and miss for me.

Whereas being Dru-whipped was cool?

Yeah, actually, I liked his relationship with Dru in season 2 quite a bit. I thought they made a great couple and I really enjoyed their chemistry.

 

[saturn5]

I liked him just fine until he got Buffy-whipped and then he was hit and miss for me.

Whereas being Dru-whipped was cool?

Yeah, actually, I liked his relationship with Dru in season 2 quite a bit. I thought they made a great couple and I really enjoyed their chemistry.

Are we talking figuratively or literally whipped because I suspect he was both frankly?

 

[DevilEyes]

I liked him just fine until he got Buffy-whipped and then he was hit and miss for me.

Whereas being Dru-whipped was cool?

Yeah, actually, I liked his relationship with Dru in season 2 quite a bit. I thought they made a great couple and I really enjoyed their chemistry.

Well, I stopped liking it about halfway through season 2 and realized that it was a really bad relationship since he was caring and devoted to her while she, well, wasn't, a by nature, she was like a fickle manipulative child only concerned with her own needs and not really caring who's there to fulfill them... Spike, Angelus... probably whoever the strongest vampire is at the moment.

 

[label]

Well, I stopped liking it about halfway through season 2 and realized that it was a really bad relationship since he was caring and devoted to her while she, well, wasn't, a by nature, she was like a fickle manipulative child only concerned with her own needs and not really caring who's there to fulfill them... Spike, Angelus... probably whoever the strongest vampire is at the moment.

Yeah, clearly it was a dysfunctional relationship...no doubt. It was almost as if they were soul demons who didn't know what real love was like.

Still, when they first came on before Spike's injury and Angelus's tormenting of Spike by flirting with Dru, I thought the Spike/Dru thing was pretty classic.

Come to think of it, Spike never really recovered from that injury.......he was never quite the same menace that he was before it and after it, he went from making a deal with his mortal enemy (and abiding by it :eek; ) to falling in love with her.

 

[Nowhere Man]

He's my favorite Gremlin.

 

[Praetor]

I think it's easy to like a villain with a sense of fun, so that's one thing. Plus, he definitely had a certain animal magnetism.

I always kind of wished at the end of the series he would have been the primary vessel for the First... just to see some semblance of him being the Big Bad again.

 

[DevilEyes]

I always kind of wished at the end of the series he would have been the primary vessel for the First... just to see some semblance of him being the Big Bad again.

God, I would've hated that... One of the best things about Spike is that he made his own decisions rather than being slave to the fate and whatever, which is why Joss calls him a more evolved character than Angel who was cursed with a soul, and says he always liked him better... The last thing I'd want to see is some stupid possession story. Yeah, he was controlled by the First for a while, but ultimately he was able to fight back, which is more like Spike.

One of the things that people tend to forget is that Spike was the Big Bad only for half a season... He was meant to be the decoy Big Bad and die in "What's My Line pt 2" - Angelus was always meant to be the real Big Bad of season 2. But since Spike became so popular, they decided to keep him alive and just crippled him temporarily... And then of course there was the great turnaround and Spike as the unexpected unlikely ally. Of course he was just the 'lesser evil' at that point. In S3 they brought him back as a comic relief more than anything, in S4 he was a real villain for 1 episode when he was trying to kill Buffy and get the Gem of Amarra (and 1 other on AtS), before he got a chip. Which they had to do in order to make him a regular, so he could interact with Buffy and the Scoobies without trying to kill them. And then he was just comic relief 'neutered vampire', until he fell in love with Buffy in S5, at which point he started being treated more seriously again and got more complexity and backstory. He was never going to stay on the show for long as a villain, since his main goal was to kill the Slayer, and you can't kill Buffy since it's her show, so if he had kept trying to kill her, it would've made him look incredibly ineffectual, he'd be like Wile E. Coyote.

So, all in all, Spike spent just 7 episodes of Buffy as a real Big Bad (6 in season 2, if we count "Surprise" where he was in wheelchair already while Dru was strong; and 1 in season 4) and 1 more as a proper villain on Angel (season 1) - all in all, 8 episodes, and in two of those (BtVS season 4 and AtS season 1) he was a fuck-up who managed to screw his own plan on the verge of success. Plus he didn't really do anything special in the villainous sense in early season 2 - although he did beat Buffy in their first fight and would've killed her if it wasn't for Joyce and her axe ("Get the hell away from my daughter!") and he and Dru did bring back the Judge. But the biggest thing he did in season 2 was actually go behind Dru and Angelus' back and ally with Buffy.

It's interesting to note that Spike, whether soulless or souled, has so far (counting season 8) saved the world or contributed to saving the world 4 times, while Angel, whether soulless or souled, has managed to bring about at least 2 apocalypses.

 

[Praetor]

Exactly. Spike was due some real Big Bad apocalyptic action, if only to keep up his rivalry with Angel.

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

It's interesting to note that Spike, whether soulless or souled, has so far (counting season 8) saved the world or contributed to saving the world 4 times, while Angel, whether soulless or souled, has managed to bring about at least 2 apocalypses.

Which just reminds me of one my favorite exchanges between the two:

Angel: I helped save the world, you know.
Spike: Like I haven't.
Angel: Yeah, but I've done it a lot more.
Spike: Oh, please!
Angel: I closed the Hellmouth.
Spike: I've done that.
Angel Yeah, you wore a necklace. You know, I helped kill the Mayor and uh... Jasmine.
Spike: Do those really count as saving the world?
Angel: I stopped Acathla. That saved the world.
Spike: Buffy ran you through with a sword!
Angel: Yeah, but I made her do it. I signaled her with my eyes.
Spike: She killed you. I helped her. That one counts as mine.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

Ah, Spike and Dru were entertaining as all hell. Of course, she wasn't very nice to him, but I can't say I cared particularly. Go out with an evil vampire, what do you expect?

Much as I enjoyed Spike as an ally of the good guys, I still like his role in Season 2 the best. Having tea with Joyce may qualify as his greatest scene.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

I always thought he was a mediocre character at best and found the deliberate neutering of him by the Initiative quite obnoxious as a plot device to keep him around in a situation plainly designed to never have to come to a real conflict just so the audience could "enjoy" his witty bastard-ness, which wore thin pretty quickly with me. I never did watch the last couple of seasons of Buffy, so whatever happened with him after that, I don't know. His appearances on Angel were fine, but nothing spectacular.

He had his moments but I never got the Spike-love at all.

 

[saturn5]

Ah, Spike and Dru were entertaining as all hell. Of course, she wasn't very nice to him, but I can't say I cared particularly. Go out with an evil vampire, what do you expect?

Much as I enjoyed Spike as an ally of the good guys, I still like his role in Season 2 the best. Having tea with Joyce may qualify as his greatest scene.

Yeah, all Joyce/Spike scenes are a treat, all the more interesting when we meet his Joyce look-alike-mother Anne (Buffy's middle name!) in season 7

 

[EJA]

In the end, Spike (with a soul) wasn't responsible for what he did (without one). He was right when he said that he was a vampire, and she was a slayer - it's what they do. He's no longer the guy responsible, so he was more or less saying to Wood: 'Get over it.'

It's probably a bit difficult to forgive someone when they're walking around wearing your mother's coat as a trophy, like a flayed pelt, which is essentially what it is. This is what I keep trying to get through to people, but they just seem to ignore it. You can't tell me this isn't sick, callous behaviour. In that regard, I think Robin has every right to hate Spike's guts. Maybe not to kill him, but certainly to dislike him. When you tell someone that you don't care about having killed their parents, and that your parents loved you more than theirs loved them, it's not exactly a big help in burying the hatchet, is it?

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

In the end, Spike (with a soul) wasn't responsible for what he did (without one). He was right when he said that he was a vampire, and she was a slayer - it's what they do. He's no longer the guy responsible, so he was more or less saying to Wood: 'Get over it.'

It's probably a bit difficult to forgive someone when they're walking around wearing your mother's coat as a trophy, like a flayed pelt, which is essentially what it is. This is what I keep trying to get through to people, but they just seem to ignore it. You can't tell me this isn't sick, callous behaviour. In that regard, I think Robin has every right to hate Spike's guts. Maybe not to kill him, but certainly to dislike him. When you tell someone that you don't care about having killed their parents, and that your parents loved you more than theirs loved them, it's not exactly a big help in burying the hatchet, is it?

Sure, Robin is totally justified in hating Spike for what he did, but the point Spike is trying to drive home is that now they're on the same side and there's no room for this crap. Get over it. She was the slayer, and he was a soulless monster. That's the way it worked. He is not the same man he was back then. As for the coat, well, he liked the coat. He may have a soul, but that doesn't mean he can't be a dick.

Let me ask you this question: Is Angel personally responsible for the horrible acts he committed as Angelus? Is he not worthy of being liked because of all of that? Spike is no more responsible for his actions during his soulless time than Angel is for his. I don't see why the standard should apply to one and not the other.