Why do Augments have to be evil?

[Kezersoze]

They're not genetically engineered. They got to where they were by actually WORKING at it.

Look at it this way: Athletes shouldn't be allowed to take steroids and compete, so why should genetic engineering be allowed? The principle is the same. In both cases, it's simple cheating.

Yeah I got to agree with you. Its like a natural bodybuilder competing against bodybuilders who use steriods and other performance enhancing drugs, they both can workout hard but there is no way the natural guy can compete against the performance users. Its no different in track, Obviously Marion Jones trained her tail off but would she have done as well without adding in that special edge? we'll never know.

The whole point of Doctor Bashir's story is that there is NO WAY he would have been in Starfleet without the G.E. that he recieved, so in a real sense he is a fraud. He ain't in starfleet due to hardwork and natural ability, cause like he says in the episode after the G.E. everything else came easy.

Shockingly, however, nuclear phycisists and Olympians have failed to stage their coup.

lol Some of the greatest scientists and athletes in history have been total ego maniacs and in some sense they should be, if you were truly totally superior to even the greatest people in your area/field/sport you'd be that way too. I can't imagine combining them and expecting that person to be humble or some crap.

 

[el Chalupacabra]

Bashir wasn't evil.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ And he also wasn't an Augment, in the same way that Khan and his ilk were.

Bashir was genetically enhanced, true. But to be an Augment requires a specific *kind* of genetic engineering. Bashir didn't have that. There's many different ways to be genetically enhanced/engineered. Bashir is an example of one method, the Augments are another kind entirely.

As for Data: He is not an enhanced human. He is a completely new life form. That alone makes a difference.

 

[datalogan]

In this board no one has mentioned a couple of other examples of genetically engineered people that didn't "go evil" as the augments did:

The entire society of humans from the TNG episode "The Masterpiece Society". This was an entire group of thousands of humans that lived peacefully (with each other at least) while also being genetically engineered. Sure, they didn't create some of the same technology that humans did out in the UFP, but they didn't need have the same needs (or helpful aliens). But they also didn't create uncontrolled desire for conquest or. Maybe they felt a little superior to others, but they were perfectly happy to be left alone and NOT try and take over the galaxy.

the Denobulans use genetic engineering regularly. (mentioned in 2nd season episode about the Borg) At least prior to their (presumed) joining the Federation.
But , then again, maybe they didn't join the Federation because they weren't willing to give up genetic engineering. That may explain why we've never seen a Denobulan around Federation space after the founding of the Federation.

And the aliens that raised Gary Seven (supervisor 194 from Assignment: Earth) used genetic engineering successfully without creating evil masterminds who wanted to rule the galaxy. (Unless that was their secret objective all along for helping people to survive their civilizations' growing pains.)

Genetic Engineering can be done well. And has been proven to be done well. The continued banning of genetic engineering in Federation society makes no sense to me. It's a tool that can be used to help trillions. Why not.

What bugs me even more than the ban on genetic engineering, though, is the way the products are treated. In almost all cases the product of genetic engineering did not chose to have themselves engineered. They were uninformed children (or zygotes) at the time. So why should they be censured as lower-level citizens, banned from careers in Starfleet or certain other career avenues? And, in some cases, arguably, imprisoned for no crime (mostly thinking of Darwin Station kids, but some of Jack Pack may apply here)? It is the most blatant issue I have with the Star Trek universe (even more than bad use of the Prime Directive) because it flies in the face of an open an free society that has out-grown emotional bigotry.

 

[datalogan]

I've always had a personal idea, totally unsubstantiated by any story on screen or in print, but still:

I think that Doctor Miranda Jones, from the TOS episode "Is There In Truth No Beauty?" was genetically engineered. I always found it interesting that she was both blind and the only human we've ever seen with telepathic abilities. (I know Gary Mitchell and some other humans like Elizabeth Dehner had some esper abilites, but nothing like Jones's telepathic talents.) I've had this little theory that Jones was "augmented" on by her parents, possibly when young like Bashir, or possibly even as an embryo. It gave her unique telepathic abilities (like no other human), but also had the side-effect of causing her blindness. No human knew how to care for a telepathic child, which was why she was cared for by Vulcans as she was growing up. (And possibly her parents were in prison for genetic engineering.) Then, later in life, with full control of her telepathy and compensation for her blindness, she went out in the world to prove everyone wrong who said a genetically engineered freak like her could never amount to anything.

 

[Myasishchev]

^I actually like that idea, given how silly the alternatives are.

And possibly her parents were in prison for genetic engineering.

Man, that would explain why they typically turn out deranged. At least, it certainly wouldn't help.

 

[el Chalupacabra]

^ And he also wasn't an Augment, in the same way that Khan and his ilk were.

Bashir was genetically enhanced, true. But to be an Augment requires a specific *kind* of genetic engineering. Bashir didn't have that. There's many different ways to be genetically enhanced/engineered. Bashir is an example of one method, the Augments are another kind entirely.
.

Meh, a distinction without a difference. His alteration was still illegal, wasn't it? Bashir may not have been an augment from birth, but he was altered and possesses nigh Khan-like superior intellect. Intellect he uses for good, not evil. My point being he did not allow his intellect to corrupt him. He could have used it for more selfish pursuits, but he used his brain to help people as a doctor. And, I might add, he did that knowing he was in violation of the law for even existing.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It definitely helps that Bashir was raised in a loving family who taught him right from wrong and instilled in him a sense of ethics.

 

[el Chalupacabra]

true!

 

[DonIago]

It definitely helps that Bashir was raised in a loving family who taught him right from wrong and instilled in him a sense of ethics.

Irony?

I got the sense that Bashir's dad was, while not a thief, not exactly a role-model either, and Bashir certainly didn't appear overly-fond of him.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Sure, Richard Bashir was a bit of a kook, but I'm sure he and Amsha did the best they could in raising Julian.

 

[DonIago]

I wouldn't just say kook, I'd say he was also prone to acts of deception aside from his little bit of genetic tinkering. I'm tempted to say "bit of a con artist" but my memories of the episode have faded enough that I don't want to take it to that point. Memory Alpha doesn't paint a glowing picture of him.

Not saying his heart wasn't in the right place necessarily, but I don't think Julian's sense of ethics originated with his father.

 

[Anticitizen]

There's another dark side of genetic engineering that hasn't yet been mentioned.

Augments have had their genetic structure changed. That doesn't just change things for the individual themselves; it also means that if these 'augments' procreate and have children, they are spreading those genes into the general gene pool through their children.

It the genetic engineering is faulty in some way - and such faults may not be apparent in the first generation - then it could have serious implications for ALL their descendants. Let's say, for instance, that Bashir turned out fine, but a Very Bad recessive allele manifests itself in offspring a few generations down the road... well, that would suck, and it would justify the UFP's stance on banning such experimentation, I think.

 

[Myasishchev]

Why? Does it justify eugenics programs in the real world? And in a fake world where you can read somebody's genome with a tricorder, is Tay-Sachs even a remote danger?