If Rey gets called by and given visions by the Lightsabre why didnt Luke? He was in much closer proximity in Obi Wans house and is probably a lot stronger in the force.
Why didnt Luke have "Sabre visions"??
- Thread starter WraithDukat
- Start date
Luke wasn't all that gifted in the Force to begin with. The only things he really did with it in the first movie were a bit of blindfolded lightsaber practice (that didn't go so well) and taking the final shot at the exhaust port.
We've seen over the course of the movies that different Force users have different levels of strength and ability or use it in different ways. We never saw anybody freeze a blaster bolt in midair until Kylo Ren did it, and his "Force mind meld" ability, as it were, seems new too. (If Vader could've used the Force to read minds, they would've found Yavin much sooner.)
So in real-world terms, it's probably just power drift, later writers amplifying what a supernormal ability is capable of. In-story, Rey and Kylo Ren might just be exceptionally gifted, or maybe there's a reason why their Force abilities are stronger (maybe some kind of, oh, I dunno, awakening of the Force?).
^ Vader was able to sense Luke's thoughts/feelings about the existence of his sister in ROTJ.
"Yes, your thoughts betray you. Your feelings for them are strong. Especially for... sister. So, you have a twin sister. Your feelings have now betrayed her, too."
Though Luke was probably practically broadcasting his thoughts through "The Force" even while trying to hide them.
Kylo seems to be able to use this ability in a more focused and powerful manner.
Kor
"Yes, your thoughts betray you. Your feelings for them are strong. Especially for... sister. So, you have a twin sister. Your feelings have now betrayed her, too."
Though Luke was probably practically broadcasting his thoughts through "The Force" even while trying to hide them.
Kylo seems to be able to use this ability in a more focused and powerful manner.
Kor
Because: storytelling?
If you really want an in-universe explanation, then I'd argue that the sabre (or more likely, the force itself, by way of the kyber crystal within the sabre) called out to Rey because she was denying her potential. Luke had not reached that kind of crisis point at the time and he certainly wasn't fearful of his potential.
There's also an element of "the mirror" about that vision (like Luke's vision of Vader in the cave.) Note that the vision starts off with Luke's history, but quickly switches to her's. The force was trying to show her herself, just as it did for Luke.
If you really want an in-universe explanation, then I'd argue that the sabre (or more likely, the force itself, by way of the kyber crystal within the sabre) called out to Rey because she was denying her potential. Luke had not reached that kind of crisis point at the time and he certainly wasn't fearful of his potential.
There's also an element of "the mirror" about that vision (like Luke's vision of Vader in the cave.) Note that the vision starts off with Luke's history, but quickly switches to her's. The force was trying to show her herself, just as it did for Luke.
I personally think your point will be (retroactively) confirmed in Ep VIII and IX. The Force will awaken big-time in her, and she'll be a major defender of "the light". Otherwise, she'll have the honor of being the weakest Jedi in the history of the galaxy.
Last edited:
Vader was impressed that Leia had such resistance to the "mind probe". If I remember the radio play correctly, the Interrogation droid only injects Leia with a serum, but after that it is all Vader using his own powers to probe her for information. And that she can resist him is surprising to him. I think if he'd been given time to think about it he might have noticed her Force Sensitivity, but Tarkin decides on an alterative solution which distracts the issue, followed of course by the arrival of the Millennium Falcon and Obi-wan Kenobi.
The mind probe scene in the NPR show was intense. And there was the unintentional irony of Vader saying, "Your father demands that you tell me (the location of the rebel base)"! If he only knew...
However, I never got the impression that Vader was using Force powers during the interrogation.
However, I never got the impression that Vader was using Force powers during the interrogation.
I'd always assumed that the "mind probe" was some piece of technology, but in retrospect it makes more sense that it was Vader using the force while she was under sedation. For one thing, I don't think there's ever been any mention of mind-reading technology anywhere else in Star Wars canon.
Last edited:
From what we saw from Kylo verses what were heard from Vader, I would think they are potentially the same thing, only the NRP would need to describe what is happening for the audience, while characters like Poe and Ray can simply react to what we are seeing done to them.
Vader used his voice and the power of suggestion to first try to get Leia to tell a follow Alliance member about the plans, than her father (ironic perhaps that "Your father orders you to tell us" is true. Her father is ordering her to tell them), than under imagined fire and pain to the point of death.
Also Vader does question Tarkin about destroying Alderaan, in that the Emperor should be consulted first/ Tarkin manages to justify his use of the weapon, as it is a deterrent. Systems will fear it properly if they know the Empire will use it as the slightest sign of revolt. One planet is a small price to pay for the stability of the Empire.
Vader used his voice and the power of suggestion to first try to get Leia to tell a follow Alliance member about the plans, than her father (ironic perhaps that "Your father orders you to tell us" is true. Her father is ordering her to tell them), than under imagined fire and pain to the point of death.
Also Vader does question Tarkin about destroying Alderaan, in that the Emperor should be consulted first/ Tarkin manages to justify his use of the weapon, as it is a deterrent. Systems will fear it properly if they know the Empire will use it as the slightest sign of revolt. One planet is a small price to pay for the stability of the Empire.
Because Lucas was making it up as he went? He didn't even consider Vader as being Luke's father or Leia his sister. And the idea of visions at all wasn't even a thing, other than expositional dialogue to explain the bad guys being able to figure things out because he couldn't think of any other way for them to do so.
Come to think of it... maybe Rey having the visions isn't about Rey, it's about the saber. This is the lightsaber that was built by Anakin Skywalker, came into Obi-Wan's possession after Anakin became Vader, and then became Luke's saber until his hand was severed by Vader. So there'd be a lot of intense traumatic emotion and psychic energy (or whatever) attached to it, more so than there would've been while it was in Luke's possession. The confrontation on Bespin may have charged it with enough energy or threads of destiny or whatever that it gained some kind of totemic power it didn't have before, and that was what Rey reacted to when she touched it. Not that her own sensitivity didn't play a part, but the change in the saber itself could explain why she reacted differently than Luke did.
Lucas didn't write TFA and isn't responsible for the "saber visions" thing.
I regret to inform you that IV ( having been originally released in 1977 ) does not even include Rey as a character since she is unborn at that point, and that she might not even appear in XIII, which is still kind of a long way off even by Disney's accelerated pace.
Last edited:
Wow, thanks for that insight. I had no idea. Heck, I had no idea that I said he wrote The Force Awakens, either, but hey, that's why we have people like you to tell us these things. In fact, it's almost like I specifically state he didn't think of such things at all, which is why -- wait for it -- he didn't think of such things at all. If only that's what I had said. If only...
I think Reverend was close to the answer. Luke had Obi-Wan at hand to introduce him to the Force and explain his connection to it. The only possible person who could do that for Rey at that point was Maz, and she didn't even sense Rey's potential until after she was 'awakened' by the vision. This was a desperation-born act of divine intervention on the Force's part. Without Luke, the Jedi were truly extinct. Without Rey, Luke wasn't coming back into the picture. Without some knowledge of/ability in the Force, Rey wasn't going to even try to find Luke. And with Starkiller Base coming on line and Kylo Ren getting more dangerous by the day, 'patience is the way of the Jedi' was no longer an option - time was of the essence. Rey needed brought up to speed NOW.
I dunno, I don't think the Force is that conscious or deliberate. It's not the Judeo-Christian God. It's more an immanent cosmic influence like those found in non-theistic Eastern religions, more like, well, a force of nature exerting a pressure on events than a personified consciousness making case-by-case choices.
Besides, why should the Force care if the Jedi survive? They didn't create it. It's inherent in all living things, sentient and otherwise. It was around long before conscious life forms arose and long before humans invented institutions like the Jedi and the Sith. The Jedi are simply a group of people who build their beliefs and values around the Force.
Granted, though, the Force is the energy of life, so its influence would tend to favor those things that promote and preserve life as opposed to those that destroy it. And the Jedi do tend to come down on the former side, in theory, though there are plenty of Stormtroopers and harmless Death Star technicians and maintenance workers who might see it differently. So it's not that the Force would be trying to preserve the Jedi as that the Force would be exerting an influence in favor of preservation over destruction, and the Jedi could find themselves serving as a tool toward that end.
Under normal circumstances, I'd totally agree. But circumstances are anything but normal by TFA. Desperate times call for desperate measures. The Prequel-era Jedi spoke of this force of nature as having a 'will,' so there's some degree of at least semiconsciousness there. Maybe the film title's more literal than we think...
Which was my line of thinking, I just didn't take that extra step in my post. If one interprets 'balance of the Force' as 'balance of creation/destruction,' starting galaxy-spanning wars and blowing up inhabited planets/star systems certainly skews things in the latter direction.
Just because characters believe something, that doesn't make it an objective fact. And human beings tend to anthropomorphize things. We often metaphorically ascribe will or intent to things that don't have it, including forces of nature, because it's a convenient way of getting an idea across to people who think in terms of having will and intent. (For instance, saying that a magnet "wants" to align itself with a magnetic field.)
Yeah, that's my take. Luke didn't need it. The only thing Luke needed was a voice telling him to pull his head back before he turned the thing on.
I tend to agree with Chris that I don't really buy the idea that they force is an intelligent conciousness by itself. That to me feels way too much like a monotheistic father figure deity than a fundamental cosmic force.
It's a bit hard to define it's nature (which is very probably deliberate) since the Jedi do mention the "will of the force" and there may be a degree of intelligence there, but probably on a more basic level. A cosmic subconsciousness, if you will. Or more precisely the collective subconsciousness of *all life* that ever was or could be.
So when the force called out to Rey it was mostly a reflection of that part of her that was calling out to it. That part of herself she was denying and suppressing. I doubt it was specifically concerned about superweapons or reluctant Jedi masters.
It's clear that for most of her life, the thing that's mostly kept her going is that someday, he family *will* come back for her (even though, deep down, she knows they never will.) To put it in Jedi terms, it's an attachment that the needed to let go of in order to move forwards. So again, the vision was much like Luke's in that it was a reflection of who she is/was/will be.
"-What's in there?" "-Only what you take with you."
It's a bit hard to define it's nature (which is very probably deliberate) since the Jedi do mention the "will of the force" and there may be a degree of intelligence there, but probably on a more basic level. A cosmic subconsciousness, if you will. Or more precisely the collective subconsciousness of *all life* that ever was or could be.
So when the force called out to Rey it was mostly a reflection of that part of her that was calling out to it. That part of herself she was denying and suppressing. I doubt it was specifically concerned about superweapons or reluctant Jedi masters.
It's clear that for most of her life, the thing that's mostly kept her going is that someday, he family *will* come back for her (even though, deep down, she knows they never will.) To put it in Jedi terms, it's an attachment that the needed to let go of in order to move forwards. So again, the vision was much like Luke's in that it was a reflection of who she is/was/will be.
"-What's in there?" "-Only what you take with you."
