Why Didn't Harry Get Promoted?

[Oddish]

Then this is analogous to a Harry Kim support group?

Or a Voyager roast. I mean, the series was basically what happens when you start with a proven franchise, create a great premise, hire an excellent cast, and then put it in the hands of showrunners who can't even figure out that an ensign is supposed to make lieutenant.

People like to discuss things.

We may even enjoy it.

Yes, it's typical behavior on a fandom BBS. Some fellow Potterheads and I once went 1300 posts on whether Ron and Hermione should have ended up together. It was loads of fun.

 

[Uncle Sock]

Yes, it's typical behavior on a fandom BBS. Some fellow Potterheads and I once went 1300 posts on whether Ron and Hermione should have ended up together. It was loads of fun.

What was the verdict?

 

[Takeru]

What was the verdict?

Hopefully that the discussion is pointless because Hermione was too good for Harry and Ron.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Only it wasn't played as an error or an oversight. When Harry mentioned in "Nightingale" that he was still an ensign after 6 years, Janeway was downright nasty. First she accused him of "bucking for a promotion", then she accused him of being overly sure of himself when he said that he'd have been at least a lieutenant, had they been in the Alpha Quadrant.

So perhaps the in-universe explanation was his attitude and he got on Janeway's bad side. It is not uncommon in the real world for a boss not to promote someone that they dislike or they feel has a bad attitude towards them or the job.

 

[Oddish]

So perhaps the in-universe explanation was his attitude and he got on Janeway's bad side.

If Harry had an attitude problem, Chakotay would not have called him "one of our best people", given that the XO interfaces with the department heads (which Harry is) as part of their duties.

It is not uncommon in the real world for a boss not to promote someone that they dislike or they feel has a bad attitude towards them or the job.

True. And Janeway disliking Harry personally would explain her decision. But for that to be a valid hypothesis, we would need evidence that (1) Janeway did dislike Harry, and (2) Janeway was a petty, abusive leader who liked to ruin her subordinates' careers for personal amusement. Can you produce that evidence?

 

[Sam_I_Am]

Maybe Starfleet Command had told her no promotions to be allocated to the Voyager crew without Board of Promotions approval beforehand.

They might have agreed on a promotion to LT CMDR for Tuvok for his work infiltrating the Maquis.

Then, since LTjg Paris becomes ENS Paris through Janeway’s sole discretion, it seems logical she can advance him back to LTjg when she’s satisfied with his performance.

 

[Farscape One]

Tuvok was promoted in "REVULSION" before they got to tell Starfleet they were alive in "MESSAGE IN A BOTTLE" later that season. And they didn't start getting into regular contact until late season 6.

 

[Oddish]

Maybe Starfleet Command had told her no promotions to be allocated to the Voyager crew without Board of Promotions approval beforehand.

They might have agreed on a promotion to LT CMDR for Tuvok for his work infiltrating the Maquis.

Then, since LTjg Paris becomes ENS Paris through Janeway’s sole discretion, it seems logical she can advance him back to LTjg when she’s satisfied with his performance.

Tuvok was promoted in "REVULSION" before they got to tell Starfleet they were alive in "MESSAGE IN A BOTTLE" later that season. And they didn't start getting into regular contact until late season 6.

Indeed. And part of the inconsistency is that they didn't direct Janeway to give out a few more rank pips. People regularly rank up without changing jobs.

 

[Markonian]

Tuvok was promoted in "REVULSION" before they got to tell Starfleet they were alive in "MESSAGE IN A BOTTLE" later that season. And they didn't start getting into regular contact until late season 6.

SFC might have agreed to Tuvok’s promotion before mission start. Like, if he’s successful, he gets the promotion. And then in the DQ Janeway held back with promoting him to avoid upsetting the Maquis he’d “betrayed”. Might even have been his own idea.

 

[Romulan_spy]

(1) Janeway did dislike Harry, and (2) Janeway was a petty, abusive leader who liked to ruin her subordinates' careers for personal amusement. Can you produce that evidence?

I think we have to assume it was (mostly) off-screen.

 

[Oddish]

I think we have to assume it was (mostly) off-screen.

If we're just going to make up reasons without evidence, we could come up with anything from "Janeway didn't like Asians because she was jilted by one as a cadet" to "Janeway was paid by Paris not to promote Harry above him". But unless actual reason to believe these theories is provided, I'm still declaring that there was no good reason.

 

[Anwar]

Or a Voyager roast. I mean, the series was basically what happens when you start with a proven franchise, create a great premise, hire an excellent cast, and then put it in the hands of showrunners who can't even figure out that an ensign is supposed to make lieutenant.

Eh, I wouldn't agree on the "Excellent" cast part. A big reason why they didn't do anything with Harry was because Wang was always being a pest on set, and Beltran phoning it in near day one was a big part of why he was sidelined.

Premise needed work too

 

[Oddish]

Eh, I wouldn't agree on the "Excellent" cast part. A big reason why they didn't do anything with Harry was because Wang was always being a pest on set, and Beltran phoning it in near day one was a big part of why he was sidelined.

Premise needed work too

Ok... one, if actors are being a pain, it would seem to me that the best thing to do is dismiss them. If you don't do that, then you need to handle their characters properly.

Two, they mentioned Harry's non-promotion in three scenes. They could have promoted him in zero scenes: just add a pip to his collar in "Night".

 

[Anwar]

Ok... one, if actors are being a pain, it would seem to me that the best thing to do is dismiss them. If you don't do that, then you need to handle their characters properly.

They did, they were going to kill off Harry in "Scorpion" but then Wang won some "Most Beautiful" contest and the studio got cold feet.

 

[Oddish]

They did, they were going to kill off Harry in "Scorpion" but then Wang won some "Most Beautiful" contest and the studio got cold feet.

Reasons are irrelevant. If they choose not to dump the characters of Chakotay and Kim, they need to develop them realistically.

 

[Anwar]

Reasons are irrelevant. If they choose not to dump the characters of Chakotay and Kim, they need to develop them realistically.

DS9 did that with Bashir...but it worked because even if Bashir wasn't a likable character to start with his actor was still putting in effort.

Season ONE:

Chakotay confronts his lover on her betrayal and using of him. Should have been a great scene except Beltran delivers it with all the emotion of a cigar store indian. It's AWFUL. And it's season one. So this stuff about how poor poor Beltran got pissy because he was sidelined is only half the story. He was sidelined I suspect because he was terrible! Just like Picardo got more and more limelight because he was fantastic. Writers aren't going to write dramatic storylines for people who can't deliver.

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So basically, anything they'd give Beltran and Wang would've gone to waste.

 

[Farscape One]

DS9 did that with Bashir...but it worked because even if Bashir wasn't a likable character to start with his actor was still putting in effort.

Season ONE:

Chakotay confronts his lover on her betrayal and using of him. Should have been a great scene except Beltran delivers it with all the emotion of a cigar store indian. It's AWFUL. And it's season one. So this stuff about how poor poor Beltran got pissy because he was sidelined is only half the story. He was sidelined I suspect because he was terrible! Just like Picardo got more and more limelight because he was fantastic. Writers aren't going to write dramatic storylines for people who can't deliver.

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So basically, anything they'd give Beltran and Wang would've gone to waste.

I disagree that Beltran was phoning it in all the time.

The Voth court scene in "DISTANT ORIGIN", his objection to Janeway in "SCORPION", pretty much all of "MANEUVERS", "NEMESIS", and others shows us he was not phoning it in.

Was Picardo a better actor? Absolutely, no question. But The Doctor also was basically a blank slate of a person, so there was even more to mine.


Regarding Bashir... he was meant to BE arrogant and unlikeable at first. Then he grew to be less arrogant and more likeable. It's called growth. Not the same thing as not bothering to service a character.

 

[Oddish]

Regarding Bashir... he was meant to BE arrogant and unlikeable at first. Then he grew to be less arrogant and more likeable. It's called growth. Not the same thing as not bothering to service a character.

Admittedly, Bashir as a character was foundering. So, the DS9 showrunners set to work. The Julian Bashir holo-program, and then the irony of getting recruited by actual spies. The revelation that Bashir was genetically engineered, and his association with other people like him... the showrunners saw a problem, and they ADDRESSED it.

When they tried to do the same with Harry, at about the same time (S3 VOY is concurrent with S5 DS9)... word came down from on high to let him stagnate. Which proves that DS9 got the quality showrunners; Voy got the B-team, the guys who couldn't even ration out 38 torpedoes or give an ensign proper career advancement.

 

[DonIago]

Hmm. See, I think that Bashir went from what could be considered a sort of naive arrogance to a somewhat more concerning smug arrogance (or, if you prefer, confidence) when it became known that he was an Augment. It certainly wasn't on display all the time, but one could definitely see some echoes of Khan within him.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

It's a weight lifted off his shoulders that he doesn't have to hide it anymore. He can stop second-guessing every move he makes (internal dialogue: "was that too clever a comment?" "move slower, idiot! someone's bound to notice!") and just relax.

BTW, nobody ever answered my question: https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/doctor-bashir-i-presume.318156/