Regaining a rank is still, should be considered still a promotion and it coming just a year and a half later does feel really soon and unearned.
Why Didn't Harry Get Promoted?
- Thread starter Akiraprise
- Start date
Regaining a rank is still, should be considered still a promotion and it coming just a year and a half later does feel really soon and unearned.
Worf was married to the love of his life. Not for as long as would have been nice, but at least Worf had that experience; plenty of people never do.
Still waiting for Lieutenant
We don't really know that they didn't. It's possible that they had other assignments during the war (like Sisko and Dax in DS9 Season 6, or Worf in Season 7), but returned to the Enterprise by the time of Insurrection.
Well, we know they didn't get promotions. All their ranks stayed the same until the end of Nemesis.
Now now, maybe they did a Reverse Tom Paris(tm).
With Picard and Riker, that made sense. They refused promotion to higher-ranking jobs.
With Data and Geordi, it did not. If Deanna and Beverly could be full commanders, so could they. And certainly the second officer and chief engineer of the frickin' flagship deserved to have a rank befitting their status.
With Worf, it did... but only because he messed up in "Change of Heart", which might have slowed his advancement.
Well...that would be drama and we can't have that with Harry and Tom on Voyager of all places.
Geordi did all right on the promotions front, he went from JG to LCDR in two years, which was the rank held by all the other E-D ChEngs, so I'd say that him stalling at LCDR makes a certain amount of sense given that he kept the same function and arguably even gave up a "seniority point" as he appears to have dropped below Worf in the "chain of command" after becoming ChEng.
Final ranks were as follows, if I remember right:
Picard: Admiral
Riker: Captain (staying put really did hurt his career)
Geordi: Commodore
Worf: Captain
Data: Lt. Commander (frocked for Commander, but died before Riker could get around to leaving)
Not sure if Beverly or Deanna rose any higher.
Picard: Admiral
Riker: Captain (staying put really did hurt his career)
Geordi: Commodore
Worf: Captain
Data: Lt. Commander (frocked for Commander, but died before Riker could get around to leaving)
Not sure if Beverly or Deanna rose any higher.
^^Beverly made Admiral at the end of the finale.
Was referred to as Admiral in dialogue, but wore the insignia of a Commodore.
Assuming she is both the head of Starfleet medical organisation (aka the Starfleet Surgeon General) and the Head of Starfleet Medical (Annex/Academy), then her being a full flag officer (IRL even the British equivalent is a 2-star and the US Armed Forces have several 3-stars in equivalent roles).
Either that or he should have remained as Ross' Chief of Staff/Fleet Captain and Ross should have commanded the fleet.
I do think having Paris get demoted was a pretty cool part of the show, something like that could, maybe should happen more often with other characters throughout the shows, that was a rare time when Voyager had more consequences for actions than the other shows (even though it of course didn't really affect his overall role/position and, worse, was too soon reversed).
I agree completely. But promotions done right were also good parts. Wesley showing up on the bridge, rocking that red uniform. Jake sticking the captain's pip on Ben's shoulder. Ogawa sticking the JG's pip on Lavelle's collar and reminding him that Sito would have been happy for him. And YES, even Tom finding a box on his chair.
Yes, for me, the latter is sort of overshadowed by the response to Harry's comment. It was sort of like when a 16-year-old finds the keys to a new car under the Christmas tree and everyone celebrates, then his 8-year-old brother demands to know why he doesn't get a car too. Sort of a smarmy, condescending, isn't-that-precious sort of vibe. And of course the comm interrupts because there is literally NO rational explanation for why Harry didn't find a box on his chair. Or get called front and center at the start of a staff meeting. Or even gotten a quieter acknowledgement, like I outlined on Page 7 (post #125) of this very topic.
And I'm not saying there isn't a rational explanation for Harry's 7-year ensignhood... just that no one's managed to come up with one in the last 5 years that I haven't been able to torpedo.
Who decides a promotion? Field promo, their commanding officer/superior, sometimes temporary. A captain or superior can recommend a permanent promotion; can they enact it without approval from the higher-ups?
@Oddish a short summary of each perhaps?
Reason: ___________
For: __________
Against: ___________
@Oddish a short summary of each perhaps?
Reason: ___________
For: __________
Against: ___________
In this unique situation, Janeway had considerable authority. And she did a lot of things with it.
- Reactivated Paris and Chakotay's Starfleet commissions at their prior ranks of LTJG and LCDR.
- Gave Torres and Ayala commissions at LTJG, and Seska at ENS.
- Took on several Maquis and Neelix as enlisted crew.
- Promoted Torres to Chief Engineer.
- Promoted Tuvok to LCDR.
- Demoted Paris to ENS.
- Stripped five Equinox survivors of rank.
- Promoted Paris back to LTJG.
In light of all that, promoting Ensign Kim to LTJG would not be a big issue. Especially given that Lt. Durst was killed, leaving a vacant lieutenant's slot in Operations. So Harry's line about "command structure" was complete BS.
Yes, upon Voyager's return, or re-establishing regular contact, Starfleet could have taken over and ordered Janeway to undo any of these actions, or promoted certain crew themselves. But they would have had no issue with giving an outstanding officer a scheduled promotion. Indeed, it's odd that they didn't instruct the captain to do so.
SO...
FOR: Harry was an excellent officer and deserved to have that fact acknowledged.
AGAINST: There's no "against" argument that has survived my counter-arguments.
I was wondering what all those against arguments were - maybe one of us could think of one that hasn't been refuted.
