Nimoy was never "hell bent" on leaving Trek during that period. He just wasn't interested in playing Spock again until they offered him something new to play: a death scene.
why did the V'ger probe take Ilia?
- Thread starter Borjis
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Nimoy was never "hell bent" on leaving Trek during that period. He just wasn't interested in playing Spock again until they offered him something new to play: a death scene.
I didn't get that, either. I mean, I don't cry when I shave off my beard!
Head-shaving was used various time in history as a punishment.
After World War II, head-shaving was a common punishment in France, the Netherlands, and Norway for women who had collaborated with the Nazis during the occupation.
I assure you that total head-shaving can be quite traumatic for a woman.
Not to make light of the trauma, but I remember another interesting story about another actress who had to have her head shaved to suit the story.
Whereas Persis Khambatta was really heartbroken over having to shave her head, Sigourney Weaver for Alien 3 had a different attitude:
She said: "Well, you're gonna have to pay me more money."
Whereas Persis Khambatta was really heartbroken over having to shave her head, Sigourney Weaver for Alien 3 had a different attitude:
She said: "Well, you're gonna have to pay me more money."
Not to make light of the trauma, but I remember another interesting story about another actress who had to have her head shaved to suit the story.
Whereas Persis Khambatta was really heartbroken over having to shave her head, Sigourney Weaver for Alien 3 had a different attitude:
She said: "Well, you're gonna have to pay me more money."
Persis Khambatta at the time was also (and principally I believe) a model. So hairs were an import part of her image....
Not to make light of the trauma, but I remember another interesting story about another actress who had to have her head shaved to suit the story.
Whereas Persis Khambatta was really heartbroken over having to shave her head, Sigourney Weaver for Alien 3 had a different attitude:
She said: "Well, you're gonna have to pay me more money."
Persis Khambatta at the time was also (and principally I believe) a model. So hairs were an import part of her image....
Breaks my heart every time I see Persis crying in the head shaving video. Makes me wish the Deltans could have been re-written so that she could have kept her hair. She is (was
) gorgeous, and I just wasn't into the bald look.
What "preponderance of evidence" please? Saavik cries at the end of the film and this is a thing unheard of a (full blooded and properly educated) Vulcan according to Picard's shocked reaction in "Sarek" (even though Sarek's high age could have been considered an excuse). But we are already discussing this in-depth in the parallel thread "Why no Sela in Nemesis?".
I'd say Vonda McIntyre was light years ahead with her TWOK novelization when she suggested Saaivik to be half-Romulan and not having been raised on Vulcan, explaining her tears.
OTOH she was apparently light years behind, because I'm pretty sure these weren't skinheads but male Deltans we saw in TMP.
Bob
I read an article somewhere back around the release of TMP. Persis Khambatta was quoted as saying, "I like the look."
She wasn't forced to shave her head for the role. Her emotional response is similar to my own every time I let my hair grow very long and then cut it off.
But in my case, I substitute beers for tears.
She wasn't forced to shave her head for the role. Her emotional response is similar to my own every time I let my hair grow very long and then cut it off.
But in my case, I substitute beers for tears.
Picard is not an authority on anything. Picard didn't know Saavik. Picard wasn't even born then.
I'm so amazed that no one has brought this up, yet:
In STAR TREK II dialogue was written during the scene where Kirk and Spock are in the corridor at STARFLEET, in which Spock reminds (or informs) Kirk of Saavik's half-Romulan origins and it was acted out and filmed. There are online videos of this footage floating around.
In STAR TREK II dialogue was written during the scene where Kirk and Spock are in the corridor at STARFLEET, in which Spock reminds (or informs) Kirk of Saavik's half-Romulan origins and it was acted out and filmed. There are online videos of this footage floating around.
Yup.
But it doesn't make much difference, nor would it handcuff future creators from making Saavik a full-blooded Vulcan. Just like Pocket Books wasn't beholden to having Martin Madden (who appeared in deleted scenes) as the new Enterprise XO post-Nemesis.
Saavik is also far younger than Spock, and, although possessed of a good degree of self-control, she probably does not possess total control the way Spock does.
What "preponderance of evidence" please? Saavik cries at the end of the film and this is a thing unheard of a (full blooded and properly educated) Vulcan according to Picard's shocked reaction in "Sarek" (even though Sarek's high age could have been considered an excuse). But we are already discussing this in-depth in the parallel thread "Why no Sela in Nemesis?".
I'd say Vonda McIntyre was light years ahead with her TWOK novelization when she suggested Saaivik to be half-Romulan and not having been raised on Vulcan, explaining her tears.
OTOH she was apparently light years behind, because I'm pretty sure these weren't skinheads but male Deltans we saw in TMP.
Bob
And even Spock wept in Star Trek TMP.
From "The Naked Time"
SPOCK: My mother. I could never tell her I loved her. ... An Earth woman, living on a planet where love, emotion, is bad taste. ... I respected my father, our customs. I was ashamed of my Earth blood. (Kirk slaps him) Jim, when I feel friendship for you, I'm ashamed.
And in TMP Spock was still half-human, and his human half was understandably overwhelmed by V'ger's sad ignorance.
Bob
SPOCK: My mother. I could never tell her I loved her. ... An Earth woman, living on a planet where love, emotion, is bad taste. ... I respected my father, our customs. I was ashamed of my Earth blood. (Kirk slaps him) Jim, when I feel friendship for you, I'm ashamed.
And in TMP Spock was still half-human, and his human half was understandably overwhelmed by V'ger's sad ignorance.
Bob
I'm guessing there weren't too many opportunities for aspiring stand-up comics on Vulcan.
Emotions such as love, tenderness, hate, anger, and even laughter may be considered in bad taste on Vulcan, but that's only because Vulcans work constantly to suppress these feelings. It doesn't mean they don't have these feelings.
In the Saavik example of her crying, she's not surrounded by the pressures of Vulcan society, and is serving on a starship staffed primarily by humans. If Vulcans do have limited telepathic abilities, as Spock has said, it's possible Saavik was susceptible to the emotions of the humans around her.
Emotions such as love, tenderness, hate, anger, and even laughter may be considered in bad taste on Vulcan, but that's only because Vulcans work constantly to suppress these feelings. It doesn't mean they don't have these feelings.
In the Saavik example of her crying, she's not surrounded by the pressures of Vulcan society, and is serving on a starship staffed primarily by humans. If Vulcans do have limited telepathic abilities, as Spock has said, it's possible Saavik was susceptible to the emotions of the humans around her.
Saavik looked rather shocked that Spock had lied about the ship's condition in TWOK ("I exaggerated"), telling me she expected Spock to represent Vulcan virtues even among outworlders and in a critical situation (which he usually did in TOS).
There were many Starfleet witnesses at Spock’s funeral seeing Saavik cry. In contrast, Picard said in “Sarek” that a crying Vulcan is a situation unheard of which either suggests he never heard of Saavik or knew that she wasn’t full Vulcan and/or had not been raised of Vulcan, so his astonishment didn’t apply to her.
Bob
There were many Starfleet witnesses at Spock’s funeral seeing Saavik cry. In contrast, Picard said in “Sarek” that a crying Vulcan is a situation unheard of which either suggests he never heard of Saavik or knew that she wasn’t full Vulcan and/or had not been raised of Vulcan, so his astonishment didn’t apply to her.
Bob
You are right. And I have to add that ST2009 shouldn't belong into a thread in a section exclusively devoted to the first ten ST movies.
Bob
Bob
We would he have heard of a junior lieutenant who served on a ship a century prior? You're really reaching there.
Spock, like Worf with the Klingons, viewed his culture through an idealized lens. That's why the society we see doesn't exactly match the characters view of it.
You keep using a TNG episode made a decade after TWoK as evidence. So I say introducing evidence from Star Trek (2009) is just as relevant to the discussion.
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