The civilian clothes actually remind me of Logan's Run, so it may have been representative of a similar extrapolation of Seventies fashion sensibilities to a futuristic setting.
why did the V'ger probe take Ilia?
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The civilian clothes actually remind me of Logan's Run, so it may have been representative of a similar extrapolation of Seventies fashion sensibilities to a futuristic setting.
It's interesting, though, how Kirk chose to dress her, coming out of the shower: a really short robe and high heels! Not that any of the other guys in the room, are complaining ...
Is the Ilia probe even supposed to be wearing panties?
Is the Ilia probe even supposed to be wearing panties?
Ahhhh....now that is one of the great mysteries.
On a slightly related tack, regarding the sonic shower....I guess it actually does project water in addition to the sonic effect. If you look at Ilia as she is saying: "YouaretheKirkunityouwillassistme" and all that other stuff....she has little beads of water on her skin about the neck and shoulders. I didn't really notice it until I watched it on blu-ray.
To Synnove (hope I got the spelling right) I would like to offer my humblest apologies. I did not mean to get so short with you. I can understand your feelings regarding Ilia's given clothing when she returned as the probe...I might not empathize, exactly, but I do understand. I should not have sounded so intolerant and smug. Again, my humblest apologies.
Ahh, but remember: The probe's materialization in Ilia's quarters was accompanied by great heat. It had been cooling down for several moments by the time Kirk and the security team arrived. The moisture may have been condensation from the air. (Although I'm not sure it would really work that way -- just trying to look for other possibilities.)
I'd imagine that is a possibility. Her initial materialization was described as "white hot". (I guess decks in the 23rd Century could withstand such extreme temperatures on the hot side. --Of course, Ilia was just white hot anyway.)
Correct and agreed. And this is also the explanation as to why the probe was sent with “no clothes.” I’m sure a cotton-polyester blend would not have lasted long being in close proximity to something that materialized as “white hot.” Clothing obviously would not have survived the process. Additionally, you can assume the sonic shower, due to its contained nature and construction, was the most contained and isolated / safe receptacle for the probe when it first arrived.
It’s made clear in the film that Deltans are an advanced species when it comes to sexuality. I’m sure this means (as others have mentioned) that Deltan casualwear is somewhat more provocative than jeans and a hooded sweatshirt. Kirk went to the touch-panel (which obviously can be configured to operate various functions within the crew quarters quickly- this is THE FUTURE after all!) and hit the most recent and/or favorite clothing selection.
It makes perfect in-universe sense…unless of course you are someone looking for reasons to get into an argument about sexism…in which case there’s no point arguing to begin with!
Indeed, the strength of Bridge station console materials you can smash with bare hands begs for a couple of explanations.
Spock is a Vulcan (ok, half). Vulcans have superior strength, albeit not demonstrated very often. That was one of them. An effective moment, IMHO.
My opinion is that the Ilia appearing nude thing is (as someone else stated) rationalized as being cloned and coming back nude like a newborn, plus V'Ger having no notion of the function of clothes or modesty. This is then projected onto the Ilia probe, who seems to not care whether she is seen nude or not. The real Ilia might not care either, but she would understand why some people DO and would have conformed to local norms. Putting her into an awkward situation like that helps establish her as somehow "not human" anymore.
What also comes to mind is how organic matter somehow needs to be sent through time nude in the Terminator films. James Cameron, I guess, had homoerotic tendencies by wanting to have Arnold walk around and show full-frontal? It can be used simply as a way to spice up a film, and ST:TMP absolutely needed things like this, which is why we still debate it over 30 years later and not spend nearly as much time talking about that wonderful shot of Sulu staring at the viewscreen and whether his look of awe was better than Kirk's. Ilia was going to come back to 'life' and it needed to be somehow a memorable transition, and they found a successful way to do it. The story of Into Darkness didn't need the Marcus scene.
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Agreed about Spock's Vulcan strength. A mere human certainly wouldn't have been able to smash the computer control surface.
Also, consider that it was the controls themselves that Spock smashed....I don't think such surfaces would be as robust as, say, the shell into which they were built.
Also, consider that it was the controls themselves that Spock smashed....I don't think such surfaces would be as robust as, say, the shell into which they were built.
(...Of course, Ilia was just white hot anyway.)
Indeed.
Ohh, excellent points! Although I suspect they used more futuristic materials than cotton and polyester.
That was my suggestion at first. However, as I remarked, I remembered that many of the civilian extras in the Starfleet docking bay scene were also wearing loose, brief outfits that bared a lot of leg. Which suggests that Ilia's leisure robe wouldn't have been out of place among the denizens of San Francisco in 2273.
Also, consider that it was the controls themselves that Spock smashed....I don't think such surfaces would be as robust as, say, the shell into which they were built.
Right -- for instance, it's not that hard to pull the keys off a PC keyboard, and indeed it's often a good idea to do so in order to clean them. (Although the keyboard I'm typing this on could really use cleaning, but I'm not sure how to do it, so I haven't attempted it yet.)
Mayhap thou findest a Vulcan for hire who specializes in "key/console" removal/displacement?
At what point did Kirk "choose?"
Kirk pushed a single button in a relative hurry, not multiple buttons and there were no vocal commands. The choice of robe and heels more likely were pre-programmed by Ilia herself.
Kirk (maybe) simply push the button for "clothes."
Oh, come on ...
At what point did Kirk "choose?"
Kirk pushed a single button in a relative hurry, not multiple buttons and there were no vocal commands. The choice of robe and heels more likely were pre-programmed by Ilia herself.
Kirk (maybe) simply push the button for "clothes."
Actually, he had one of two button choices:
CLOTHES
and
CLOTHES ENOUGH
(Guess what he picked in a hurry?)
Persis Khambatta was made to have her head shaved bald, which there are movies of this on YouTube, showing her crying - OK? - CRYING because her beauty was being compromised, DESPITE the fact that she had the face that was up to doing all the "work" as far as her beauty went AND despite the fact that, rest assured, hair does, indeed grow back. But she cried and her tears weren't about to accept that having her hair shaved off wasn't a traumatic experience.
After ALL of that, AND being made to wear this necklace that's tanning a spot on her throat, underneath the red light shining away on it, you'd think Gene Roddenberry, Robert Wise, et al, would've felt like, "OK ... we've made this actress suffer enough for her art." But no. They had to make one more dramatic request of her and that was to actually go NUDE for the shower sequence.
No hazy blur behind the door, no Head & Shoulders shots, we're talking in the RAW, here! And that was the balls it, for this woman. She told them to give it up, already, because it ain't happening. But they pursued. They insisted. But Persis Khambatta never did the scene nude for this movie. Considering the "innocence" of the shower scene, I wonder if a "G" rating still would've flown, back in the day. Either way, they had The Brass ...
After ALL of that, AND being made to wear this necklace that's tanning a spot on her throat, underneath the red light shining away on it, you'd think Gene Roddenberry, Robert Wise, et al, would've felt like, "OK ... we've made this actress suffer enough for her art." But no. They had to make one more dramatic request of her and that was to actually go NUDE for the shower sequence.
No hazy blur behind the door, no Head & Shoulders shots, we're talking in the RAW, here! And that was the balls it, for this woman. She told them to give it up, already, because it ain't happening. But they pursued. They insisted. But Persis Khambatta never did the scene nude for this movie. Considering the "innocence" of the shower scene, I wonder if a "G" rating still would've flown, back in the day. Either way, they had The Brass ...
I didn't get that, either. I mean, I don't cry when I shave off my beard!
But a trusted ladyfriend of mine had pointed out that it was understandable, because it would probably take about fourteen years to fully grow back. Now, that's all I've got to go on, but if true it would give her tears some weight.That said, it was a pretty risky move: what if they had shaved her head, and it ended up looking goofy?
Well, as had been pointed out before, G and PG had wide berths back then.
(Consider that the movie "True Grit" with John Wayne was G rated, and he shouts out "Fill yer' hand, you son of a bitch!" and that was the mid to late sixties, methinks.
G might have tightened up some by the late seventies, but not so much that it couldn't show Ilia (at least from the neck up, or behind blurred transparencies) naked. Also, the movie had profanity in the form of either damn, or hell, and usually pretty emphatic. If that same movie were made under today's standards, yes, it would've gotten a PG rating, possibly even a light PG-13 depending on how today's modern moms and pops (who largely make up the MPAA rating board, despite their anonimity) feel about implied skin scenes.
Let's put this another way:
Take the Disney movie "Cat From Outer Space". 1978. Light hearted sci-fi comedy. It has McLean Stevensen drinking beer, a bookie, some smoking, even mild gunplay....it got a G rating back then....if it were made that exact way today, PG easily.
Raiders of the Lost Ark was a fairly graphically violent movie for a PG film. Just not enough to warrant an R rating in 1981, because of the context. Made today, the exact same way: Easy R.
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan....if it were made today exactly as it was in '82.... PG-13, guaranteed.
(And yet, amazingly enough, Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, which had more dismemberments and decapitations than probably any SW film in history..only got a PG rating.)
As for Persis Khambatta, looks like her hair grew back pretty well in time for the Stallone yarn, Nighthawks, and the cornball futuristic action comedy "Megaforce".
(Consider that the movie "True Grit" with John Wayne was G rated, and he shouts out "Fill yer' hand, you son of a bitch!" and that was the mid to late sixties, methinks.
G might have tightened up some by the late seventies, but not so much that it couldn't show Ilia (at least from the neck up, or behind blurred transparencies) naked. Also, the movie had profanity in the form of either damn, or hell, and usually pretty emphatic. If that same movie were made under today's standards, yes, it would've gotten a PG rating, possibly even a light PG-13 depending on how today's modern moms and pops (who largely make up the MPAA rating board, despite their anonimity) feel about implied skin scenes.
Let's put this another way:
Take the Disney movie "Cat From Outer Space". 1978. Light hearted sci-fi comedy. It has McLean Stevensen drinking beer, a bookie, some smoking, even mild gunplay....it got a G rating back then....if it were made that exact way today, PG easily.
Raiders of the Lost Ark was a fairly graphically violent movie for a PG film. Just not enough to warrant an R rating in 1981, because of the context. Made today, the exact same way: Easy R.
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan....if it were made today exactly as it was in '82.... PG-13, guaranteed.
(And yet, amazingly enough, Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, which had more dismemberments and decapitations than probably any SW film in history..only got a PG rating.)
As for Persis Khambatta, looks like her hair grew back pretty well in time for the Stallone yarn, Nighthawks, and the cornball futuristic action comedy "Megaforce".
I didn't get that, either. I mean, I don't cry when I shave off my beard!
That said, it was a pretty risky move: what if they had shaved her head, and it ended up looking goofy?
You're not born with a beard so shaving one off isn't exactly the same thing. And women are taught to out a lot of time into their appearance. So, couple that experience to having people standing around filming you as it happens was bound to be a little emotional, especially if someone's nervous about what they're going to look like when it's over.
Oh, I know, Maurice..I was just funnin' about the beard stuff.
Actually, I'm very sympathetic to what women "have" to go through. As if people don't have enough worries and self-doubt...let's tack on another layer of artificially constructed insecurity.
Or the two buttons were clothes on, and clothes off. I still don't think Kirk selected Ilia's outfit, he was just putting something on her (it?).
I'm not sure where the robe actually came from, some kind of early replicator? It's possible that Kirk could not have put a duty uniform on her if he wished to, the mechanism (whatever it was) simply couldn't have done that, some type of robe was it.
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