Why did the TOS films never bring back Carol Marcus?

[Allyn Gibson]

I know Takei has said for forty years that Shatner deliberately sabotaged his line reading, but I thought he sounded fine. The real problem, imho, is the dialogue Takei has. It doesn't sound natural.

Sulu getting his own command does work within the context of the film's themes of aging and moving on, but the dialogue could have been better written, even if it was a last minute add to get Takei to sign after filming had begun.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I know Takei has said for forty years that Shatner deliberately sabotaged his line reading, but I thought he sounded fine. The real problem, imho, is the dialogue Takei has. It doesn't sound natural.

Yup. "Any chance to go aboard the Enterprise, however briefly, is always an excuse for nostalgia" is INCREDIBLY stilted phrasing. It should've been rewritten before they ever tried to shoot it.

 

[CoveTom]

I know Takei has said for forty years that Shatner deliberately sabotaged his line reading, but I thought he sounded fine. The real problem, imho, is the dialogue Takei has. It doesn't sound natural.

Sulu getting his own command does work within the context of the film's themes of aging and moving on, but the dialogue could have been better written, even if it was a last minute add to get Takei to sign after filming had begun.

Takei says many things that are demonstrably untrue. At every drop of a hat, he repeats his story about how Shatner would huddle with directors to ensure that shots with close-ups of the supporting cast were changed to shots of only Shatner reacting to an offscreen voice.

That's just nonsense. First, no director would *ever* not get coverage on a scene. Second, all you have to do is watch the show to see that Sulu has plenty of close-ups and basically never is his dialogue delivered as an offscreen voice.

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

Yup. "Any chance to go aboard the Enterprise, however briefly, is always an excuse for nostalgia" is INCREDIBLY stilted phrasing. It should've been rewritten before they ever tried to shoot it.

It's almost as if Sulu was turning half-Yoda in some respects.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

It sounds like something the narrator of a documentary would say.

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

It sounds like something the narrator of a documentary would say.

About this viewpoint a pair of posters agree. (Ugh.)

 

[CoveTom]

Nick Meyer was channeling his inner George Lucas when writing some of the dialogue.

 

[Daddy Todd]

Nick Meyer was channeling his inner George Lucas when writing some of the dialogue.

To be fair, it's still better than most of George Lucas's dialog...

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

To be fair, it's still better than most of George Lucas's dialog...

ATTACK OF THE CLONES has the absolute nadir from Yoda. Not to mention a great actor playing a would-be intimidating villain with a character name all too close to ''Doodoo.''

 

[Maurice]

Sulu's "Why, why it's Mr.—" from ST—TMP is even worse. No one talks like that.

 

[TheAlmanac]

Hell, why did they sit on Vulcan for 3 months to begin with? Why didn't they take a ship back to Earth? Sarek would have given them a ride. Why wasn't Starfleet coming to get them? Vulcan wasn't neutral territory, it was a major member of the Federation. It's not like Kirk to hide from his responsibilities. It's not in character for any of them to hang out and delay facing the music.

In a world where Julian Assange exists, it surprises you that it might take three whole months to work out how a diplomatically-awkward and politically-sensitive group of criminal co-conspirators would turn themselves into the authorities, with another jurisdiction simultaneously trying to extradite them?

 

[CoveTom]

In a world where Julian Assange exists, it surprises you that it might take three whole months to work out how a diplomatically-awkward and politically-sensitive group of criminal co-conspirators would turn themselves into the authorities, with another jurisdiction simultaneously trying to extradite them?

But they weren't hiding out somewhere. They were on Vulcan, one of the founding members of the Federation. They might as well have been on Earth. The idea that they would have to spend three months repairing and refitting a Klingon Bird of Prey just so they could fly back to Earth is ridiculous.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Sulu's "Why, why it's Mr.—" from ST—TMP is even worse. No one talks like that.

I dunno, I think George Takei actually does.

But they weren't hiding out somewhere. They were on Vulcan, one of the founding members of the Federation. They might as well have been on Earth. The idea that they would have to spend three months repairing and refitting a Klingon Bird of Prey just so they could fly back to Earth is ridiculous.

This. I get the story need to go back in time, but they didn't need to repair the BoP, have Scotty do it, spend three months working on it while on a planet as important as Vulcan. The Klingon complaint is irrelevant, Kirk and Co. are still in Federation space. All they had to do was...you know...go home. And didn't Starfleet know they were there? Nobody sent a ship?

 

[TheAlmanac]

But they weren't hiding out somewhere. They were on Vulcan, one of the founding members of the Federation. They might as well have been on Earth. The idea that they would have to spend three months repairing and refitting a Klingon Bird of Prey just so they could fly back to Earth is ridiculous.

This. I get the story need to go back in time, but they didn't need to repair the BoP, have Scotty do it, spend three months working on it while on a planet as important as Vulcan. The Klingon complaint is irrelevant, Kirk and Co. are still in Federation space. All they had to do was...you know...go home. And didn't Starfleet know they were there? Nobody sent a ship?

Both of you seem to have bypassed the actual parallel I was making--I don't think it was logistically impossible for the crew to go back sooner, I think it was politically cumbersome to have them do so.

This was a set of people at the heart of an issue they already knew had "become a galactic controversy" which they then exacerbated--in a manner which drew in both a prominent ambassador and a rival power (with their own "unique point of view" on what happened), making the entire situation extremely delicate.

"Why wasn't Starfleet coming to get them?" Because that rival power didn't want them returning to Earth in the first place, but rather preferred to have them extradited, and argued before the Federation Council that they resented Starfleet exercising jurisdiction in the situation. ("Starfleet regulations, that's outrageous!") The crew were a political hot potato.

You seem to be placing too heavy a focus on the idea of repair as the "real" reason for their "exile," as if the main guy doing the work hadn't shown a capacity for stretching repair times in both directions, especially if it was necessary for political reasons ("could take weeks, sir").

 

[Maurice]

I always took it that they chose to stay on Vulcan to keep an eye on Spock while Sarek tried to work some diplomatic channels on their behalf, probably offering diplomatic immunity to them so long as they were on Vulcan. Also, since the Klingon ship was foreign and had been damaged in the brief fight over Genesis, it makes sense that Scotty would want to go over it with a fine-toothed comb to make sure it wasn't going to fail in flight, and that the crew actually knew how to fly it properly. Plus, hey, gotta completely replace the bridge, right?

 

[XCV330]

Both of you seem to have bypassed the actual parallel I was making--I don't think it was logistically impossible for the crew to go back sooner, I think it was politically cumbersome to have them do so.

This was a set of people at the heart of an issue they already knew had "become a galactic controversy" which they then exacerbated--in a manner which drew in both a prominent ambassador and a rival power (with their own "unique point of view" on what happened), making the entire situation extremely delicate.

"Why wasn't Starfleet coming to get them?" Because that rival power didn't want them returning to Earth in the first place, but rather preferred to have them extradited, and argued before the Federation Council that they resented Starfleet exercising jurisdiction in the situation. ("Starfleet regulations, that's outrageous!") The crew were a political hot potato.

You seem to be placing too heavy a focus on the idea of repair as the "real" reason for their "exile," as if the main guy doing the work hadn't shown a capacity for stretching repair times in both directions, especially if it was necessary for political reasons ("could take weeks, sir").

Star Fleet intelligence would have wanted to comb HMS Bounty for any information/details/cloaking device etc while they had a chance to look at it and before diplomatic talks about returning it occurred, too. Might as well keep it with the crew that captured it. (er.. nevermind, forgot it wound up in a museum and the cloak was used by La Forge's daughter)

 

[CoveTom]

I always took it that they chose to stay on Vulcan to keep an eye on Spock while Sarek tried to work some diplomatic channels on their behalf, probably offering diplomatic immunity to them so long as they were on Vulcan. Also, since the Klingon ship was foreign and had been damaged in the brief fight over Genesis, it makes sense that Scotty would want to go over it with a fine-toothed comb to make sure it wasn't going to fail in flight, and that the crew actually knew how to fly it properly. Plus, hey, gotta completely replace the bridge, right?

Replace the bridge, but not the Klingon food packs which apparently, for unknown reason, our heroes had eaten for three months even though they were on Vulcan and fully able to get regular food.

 

[Qonundrum]

Sulu's "Why, why it's Mr.—" from ST—TMP is even worse. No one talks like that.

We English speaking folks now don't talk in the way that English speaking people had 300 years ago?

I perceived the scene's idea that nobody was expecting Spock to ever return since he was off looking into Kolinahr* and *boop* there he is, much to everyone's shock...

* especially after ingesting too much plomeek pretzels and/or trying to purge emotions

I always took it that they chose to stay on Vulcan to keep an eye on Spock while Sarek tried to work some diplomatic channels on their behalf, probably offering diplomatic immunity to them so long as they were on Vulcan. Also, since the Klingon ship was foreign and had been damaged in the brief fight over Genesis, it makes sense that Scotty would want to go over it with a fine-toothed comb to make sure it wasn't going to fail in flight, and that the crew actually knew how to fly it properly. Plus, hey, gotta completely replace the bridge, right?

^^this

Movies 2-4 take some liberties with established traits and lore, but IV's takes the cake in Scotty re-rigging the entire Klingon ship's bridge to something Starfleety. On top of the supposed peace talks and Kirk trying to not kill Kruge every 3 seconds from the previous film, now the Klingons will simmer and shriek "SPIES! Tearing down equipment to see how it works?!"

Why he would disassemble bits of the bridge just to make it feel like the Enterprise... they just got this big piece of constructed alien technology and there's no manual anywhere, so to make drastic changes in... how much time had elapsed? ... seems a possible miracle work for sure. Then again, 300 years of evolution, humans would be smarter all around or so a theory goes. Or the technologies between species isn't all that different, some laws of physics do remain the same regardless. People still have individual traits as they all can't be captains and the engineers ensure everything works.

Plot holes are inevitable, but as with a cake, no single ingredient makes the cake better than the ingredients a la carte. I mean, raise your hand if you've sat in front of a cake, a cup of wheat, two eggs, glass of milk, pound of sugar, then took one bit of cake followed by gulping down all the other assorted ingredients and tell me you prefer the individual ones unmixed. Apart from body builders since some of them crack an egg in a glass and drink it raw... I wonder if their cholesterol levels are higher than a horse in heat in a hippie hut, but that's not important right now...

 

[Qonundrum]

Replace the bridge, but not the Klingon food packs which apparently, for unknown reason, our heroes had eaten for three months even though they were on Vulcan and fully able to get regular food.

Or the Vulcan dishes were deemed less palatable. Obviously edible and compatible as Spock didn't need special foodstuffs. But, in Star Trek Land, all food everywhere can be ingested by any species and it's A-OK. Sheesh, the Anticans were canine-like in some aspects, but would probably sit next to Troi and eat even more chocolate than her and somehow never get sick. Unlike real dogs in real life: https://www.caninebible.com/can-dogs-eat-chocolate/
(To answer the URL's potentially rhetorical question directly, no they cannot eat chocolate as the main ingredient is toxic to them.)