Why did Pike promote Kirk...

[Gojira]

Kirk was Pike's chosen one. As he says in the shipyard bar, Kirk has all the traits that Pike believes Starfleet has lost - traits Pike thought important to surviving the current crisis.

Too bad the movie didn't actually establish that Starfleet was missing anything that an undisciplined, cocky loose cannon could provide. Not that they even remotely had time to do that. They should have come up with a more plausible rationale that could be shoehorned into a movie's running time.

I think the way they showed it was very plausible. Pike knew Kirk was a genius. Kirk had already demonstrated that by being the only one on the entire ship that knew they were flying into an attack on Vulcan and not some natural phenomenon. So it was an understandable step to promote Kirk to 1st officer when he left the ship knowing Kirk was the most qualified to be in that position.

 

[BillJ]

I think the way they showed it was very plausible. Pike knew Kirk was a genius. Kirk had already demonstrated that by being the only one on the entire ship that knew they were flying into an attack on Vulcan and not some natural phenomenon. So it was an understandable step to promote Kirk to 1st officer when he left the ship knowing Kirk was the most qualified to be in that position.

It seems to me that the only thing Kirk did was pay attention... not exactly a genius level accomplishment. The only thing it served to do was to make everyone, including Pike, look incompetent. Plus, I still don't get where making Kirk the XO prior to his suicide mission was going to change anything aboard the Enterprise? If Kirk was important enough to make XO... shouldn't Pike have picked another redshirt to send down in his place?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I think the way they showed it was very plausible. Pike knew Kirk was a genius. Kirk had already demonstrated that by being the only one on the entire ship that knew they were flying into an attack on Vulcan and not some natural phenomenon. So it was an understandable step to promote Kirk to 1st officer when he left the ship knowing Kirk was the most qualified to be in that position.

It seems to me that the only thing Kirk did was pay attention... not exactly a genius level accomplishment. The only thing it served to do was to make everyone, including Pike, look incompetent. Plus, I still don't get where making Kirk the XO prior to his suicide mission was going to change anything aboard the Enterprise? If Kirk was important enough to make XO... shouldn't Pike have picked another redshirt to send down in his place?

Okay why is everyone convinced this was a suicide mission? What just becuase Olsen was an idiot and got fired.

 

[Cyke101]

I think the way they showed it was very plausible. Pike knew Kirk was a genius. Kirk had already demonstrated that by being the only one on the entire ship that knew they were flying into an attack on Vulcan and not some natural phenomenon. So it was an understandable step to promote Kirk to 1st officer when he left the ship knowing Kirk was the most qualified to be in that position.

It seems to me that the only thing Kirk did was pay attention... not exactly a genius level accomplishment. The only thing it served to do was to make everyone, including Pike, look incompetent. Plus, I still don't get where making Kirk the XO prior to his suicide mission was going to change anything aboard the Enterprise? If Kirk was important enough to make XO... shouldn't Pike have picked another redshirt to send down in his place?

Okay why is everyone convinced this was a suicide mission? What just becuase Olsen was an idiot and got fired.

For that matter, captains in Star Trek usually expect their officers to, y'know, succeed in their assigned mission. Why bother to tell them they'll be able to beam out once they complete their objective if it's a suicide mission?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Because Kirk saved the ship - he was the only one who had any idea what the fuck was going on.

The writers establish early in the story, BTW, that on first meeting Pike thinks Kirk possesses qualities that he finds lacking in the "modern" Starfleet. I'd imagine that Pike continued to watch Kirk's progress for three years at the Academy, and that putting him in a position of authority wasn't entirely a snap decision.

 

[BillJ]

Because Kirk saved the ship - he was the only one who had any idea what the fuck was going on.

No Google in the 23rd Century? Not one of the thousands of officers and crew en route to Vulcan stopped to look up 'lightening storm in space' to maybe get an inkling of what they're going to be dealing with upon arrival? By trying to make Kirk look like a genius, they made everyone else look incredibly incompetent. YMMV.

The writers establish early in the story, BTW, that on first meeting Pike thinks Kirk possesses qualities that he finds lacking in the "modern" Starfleet. I'd imagine that Pike continued to watch Kirk's progress for three years at the Academy, and that putting him in a position of authority wasn't entirely a snap decision.

I can agree that it probably wasn't a snap decision by Pike. But it reflects poorly on whomever he had as his second officer.

 

[Cyke101]

I can agree that it probably wasn't a snap decision by Pike. But it reflects poorly on whomever he had as his second officer.

I'm wondering if the second officer was Chief Olsen, since he's the only other officer we see of considerable rank. If that's the case, it seemed Olsen was more concerned about "kicking Romulan ass!" than the chain of command.

Then again, I haven't read the novelization or earlier drafts of the script -- having Olsen disregard orders to pull his chute in time could have been lengthened as a stubborn way of questioning Kirk's authority.

 

[Tarek71]

before he leaves for the Narada? It's been established that getting him into the captains chair was rushed, but I don't understand Pikes reasoning.

It's especially confusing for me since Pike admitted that Kirk wasn't even supposed to be there. Why promote him to first officer then?

The script said so. Thats it. Cadet captain? Not happening. Any ensign or lieutenant on that ship is more qualified and would have the spot over ANY cadet. I know we are supposed to believe that absolutely no ensigns, lieutenants, lt. commanders or commanders were available on Earth that day, but thats BS.

 

[F. King Daniel]

^Kirk, although a third year cadet, already held the rank of lieutenant (TOS Kirk was also a lieutenant at the academy, btw). Take a look at the transporter console when he and Sulu are being beamed up from freefall.

Fourth-year cadet Uhura was also a lieutenant. Best of the best, and all that.

And over on Voyager, Harry Kim was an ensign for seven years.

 

[Tarek71]

Kirk's midi-chlorians tipped Pike off that he was indeed the Chosen One.

LOL. The Star Wars prequels and this movie had the same problem. How do we get the character to the place the audience knows he'll end up at? In the case of Star Wars, Lucas had to come up with a convincing set of reasons for why Anakin turns to the dark side. He failed. He had 3 movies in which to map it all out and instead rushed things at the last minute and gave us something incredibly contrived. Same with this movie. Kirk has to end up as Captain by the end of the movie. So the writers basically force it because the plot demands it.

I have to agree. Going from childhood to Captain in one movie, while still introducing us to other characters and establishing the villian meant huge time compression. They could still have added one more time jump though. Baby-Snarky Kid-Barfly-Cadet-AND THEN-1st or Second officer on Enterprise. Put him right where his father was.

THEN he takes command. Instead they stopped the jumps while still a cadet. They didnt have to do that. That was a choice. A pretty crappy one, but thats the one they made.

 

[DFScott]

I am desperately scrambling for words that can top the explanation you just gave, ShatnersToupee. And crap, there aren't any. So without further ado...

The Star Wars prequels and this movie had the same problem. How do we get the character to the place the audience knows he'll end up at? In the case of Star Wars, Lucas had to come up with a convincing set of reasons for why Anakin turns to the dark side. He failed. He had 3 movies in which to map it all out and instead rushed things at the last minute and gave us something incredibly contrived. Same with this movie. Kirk has to end up as Captain by the end of the movie. So the writers basically force it because the plot demands it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

If Pike feels that Starfleet has lost so much, then something bad must have happened because of Nero's interference; clearly there were many competent officers in TOS (such as Commodore Wesley).

 

[F. King Daniel]

If Pike feels that Starfleet has lost so much, then something bad must have happened because of Nero's interference; clearly there were many competent officers in TOS (such as Commodore Wesley).

Many? What about Commodore Decker and Captain Tracey? Hardly the stuff legends are made of. Even the supposedly heroic Captain Garth went totally nuts.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Decker was a fine captain until he lost his crew. So were Tracey and Garth, probably. Those men only lost it because of a specific set of circumstances. They weren't "naturally" losers.

 

[BillJ]

Heck... if Starfleet is in tha bad of shape they should've just promoted him straight to Admiral!

 

[Tarek71]

^Kirk, although a third year cadet, already held the rank of lieutenant (TOS Kirk was also a lieutenant at the academy, btw). Take a look at the transporter console when he and Sulu are being beamed up from freefall.

Fourth-year cadet Uhura was also a lieutenant. Best of the best, and all that.

And over on Voyager, Harry Kim was an ensign for seven years.

Yes, the Seven Year Ensign! But I think Ensign is the rank you graduate with, just like today. You arent even an ensign before then. Cadets have their own internal rank system thats different from graduated officers. Im assuming the writers either didnt know the military from their own behinds or they were treating these as brevet positions. That does happen in some services when someone is given a temporary higher rank for the duration of some situation, often in a wartime situation. They can revert to previous rank later.

And of course, the graduated officers are also the best of the best.

 

[Cyke101]

^Kirk, although a third year cadet, already held the rank of lieutenant (TOS Kirk was also a lieutenant at the academy, btw). Take a look at the transporter console when he and Sulu are being beamed up from freefall.

Fourth-year cadet Uhura was also a lieutenant. Best of the best, and all that.

And over on Voyager, Harry Kim was an ensign for seven years.

Yes, the Seven Year Ensign! But I think Ensign is the rank you graduate with, just like today. You arent even an ensign before then. Cadets have their own internal rank system thats different from graduated officers. Im assuming the writers either didnt know the military from their own behinds or they were treating these as brevet positions. That does happen in some services when someone is given a temporary higher rank for the duration of some situation, often in a wartime situation. They can revert to previous rank later.

And of course, the graduated officers are also the best of the best.

I feel like those changes, where Starfleet ranks mirror the US Navy's ranks and traditions, were a TNG invention. I don't recall many ensigns in TOS, but TNG was the first place where we saw actual development and definition of ranks, as well as much closer examinations of the Academy itself. It's possible that things changed in terms of ranks between TOS and TNG.

 

[Tarek71]

I feel like those changes, where Starfleet ranks mirror the US Navy's ranks and traditions, were a TNG invention. I don't recall many ensigns in TOS, but TNG was the first place where we saw actual development and definition of ranks, as well as much closer examinations of the Academy itself. It's possible that things changed in terms of ranks between TOS and TNG.

Right, I do think there had been changes, but these mostly seemed like a fleshing out rather than wholesale changes. Ranks were added for instance, like Lt. Jg. There were ensigns in TOS, notably Chekov for one, and one is left with the impression that 0-1 (Ensign, 2nd Lt.) is the rank you graduate with and is the rank that Chekov graduated with.

Who knows what JJ&Co were doing with their conception of the Academy or officer ranks, etc. They even had a doctor going to the Academy. In the JJAltVerse god only knows. Maybe you can be an 18yo Admiral. It seems like they just made things up as they went along, and it didnt matter if it made any sense whatsoever.

Ever heard of OCS or OTS? People with degrees dont go to the Academy. Thats why it takes 4 years, you are getting a Bachelors degree. If you already have one (in todays world) you dont go to the Academy (you already took English 101, Intro to Philosophy, etc) so you go straight to officer candidate school. That only takes a matter of months, and presto, you are an Ensign/2nd Lt)

So to rationalize JJAcademy, we will just say its an amalgamation of the traditional Academy (4 year degree for HS grads), OCS/OTS (the military portion of your training for people who already have the Academic bachelors), specialized training and degrees for those with advanced civilian training (doctors, nurses lawyers, etc) and any specialized schools associated with the various MOS' and Rates.

One vast Academy, and on the grounds of which all the usual training takes place. Heck, we can even throw in that enlisted boot camps and the various schools for THEIR rates/mos are also located there.

That would be one huge campus, but what the hell. that still doesnt explain everything you might see in JJAltVerse, but thats the best I can do.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The idea of McCoy going to Starfleet Academy has been used in many novels from the 80's and 90's. I believe Dr. Crusher went to SFA too. They wouldn't just pluck a doctor from medical school and put them on a starship - they'd need training in starship procedures, protocol and non-human medicine.

About 17-year-old Ensign Chekov, Wrath of Khan's cadet Peter Preston (Scotty's nephew, who died during Khan's first attack) was supposed to be 14(!), but the lines mentioning it were cut (along with Saavik being half-Romulan).

The idea of Starfleet in STXI was that if you have a gift, you will be given a chance to use it to the fullest.

 

[Gojira]

Because Kirk saved the ship - he was the only one who had any idea what the fuck was going on.

No Google in the 23rd Century? Not one of the thousands of officers and crew en route to Vulcan stopped to look up 'lightening storm in space' to maybe get an inkling of what they're going to be dealing with upon arrival? By trying to make Kirk look like a genius, they made everyone else look incredibly incompetent. YMMV.

Even with them knowing about a 'lightening storm in space' why would anyone think that what was going on with Vulcan would be anything but a natural phenomenon? Unless someone on any of those other ships warping to Vulcan were experts on the minutia of what happened to the Kelvin there really isn't anything happening to arouse suspicion that what is occurring is not natural.

I don't think Kirk looking like a genius made the others look incompetent at all.