Why did Pike promote Kirk...

[BillJ]

The idea of McCoy going to Starfleet Academy has been used in many novels from the 80's and 90's. I believe Dr. Crusher went to SFA too. They wouldn't just pluck a doctor from medical school and put them on a starship - they'd need training in starship procedures, protocol and non-human medicine.

But a another four year school? Like was stated upthread... many things taught at the Academy would be redundant for a college graduate.

About 17-year-old Ensign Chekov, Wrath of Khan's cadet Peter Preston (Scotty's nephew, who died during Khan's first attack) was supposed to be 14(!), but the lines mentioning it were cut (along with Saavik being half-Romulan).

The whole Peter Preston being 14 made no sense. It's not just about how smart you are, but also maturity. The kid was barely high school age. I tend to give Chekov a pass.

The idea of Starfleet in STXI was that if you have a gift, you will be given a chance to use it to the fullest.

Actually, the only thing I got from Star Trek 2009 was that 'rules are for losers'. I think its' important for Star Trek 2012 to show the flip side of the coin. What can go horribly wrong when you don't follow the rules.

 

[BillJ]

Because Kirk saved the ship - he was the only one who had any idea what the fuck was going on.

No Google in the 23rd Century? Not one of the thousands of officers and crew en route to Vulcan stopped to look up 'lightening storm in space' to maybe get an inkling of what they're going to be dealing with upon arrival? By trying to make Kirk look like a genius, they made everyone else look incredibly incompetent. YMMV.

Even with them knowing about a 'lightening storm in space' why would anyone think that what was going on with Vulcan would be anything but a natural phenomenon? Unless someone on any of those other ships warping to Vulcan were experts on the minutia of what happened to the Kelvin there really isn't anything happening to arouse suspicion that what is occurring is not natural.

I don't think Kirk looking like a genius made the others look incompetent at all.

You're joking, right? You're a captain and you'd have no one working on it en route? Looking for past instances of similar occurrences so you can begin to formulate a plan of action for when you arrive. Because if it is some type of natural phenomenon causing seismic disturbances on Vulcan... time could be crucial in saving lives.

Substitute the name Wesley Crusher for James T. Kirk and you'd have had people lined up around the block waiting to slice this apart.

 

[Tarek71]

The idea of McCoy going to Starfleet Academy has been used in many novels from the 80's and 90's. I believe Dr. Crusher went to SFA too. They wouldn't just pluck a doctor from medical school and put them on a starship - they'd need training in starship procedures, protocol and non-human medicine.

And they dont just stick them on Aircraft carriers either. Its very extensive training, including further medical education in their specialization (flight medicine, etc) and a residency. Flight training can be included in that. But thats not the Academy that does that.

The Academy is a 4 year college that grants bachelors degrees. You wouldnt go there as an MD. The military has many schools, including graduate education, but the Academy has nothing to do with that. You already have your undergrad education. So lets just say that the grounds of JJAcademy just include the facilities where MDs and Lawyers and other professionals with civilian Grad school education go for their specialized traning, as well as the officer candidates that already have a bachelors.

 

[Gojira]

No Google in the 23rd Century? Not one of the thousands of officers and crew en route to Vulcan stopped to look up 'lightening storm in space' to maybe get an inkling of what they're going to be dealing with upon arrival? By trying to make Kirk look like a genius, they made everyone else look incredibly incompetent. YMMV.

Even with them knowing about a 'lightening storm in space' why would anyone think that what was going on with Vulcan would be anything but a natural phenomenon? Unless someone on any of those other ships warping to Vulcan were experts on the minutia of what happened to the Kelvin there really isn't anything happening to arouse suspicion that what is occurring is not natural.

I don't think Kirk looking like a genius made the others look incompetent at all.

You're joking, right? You're a captain and you'd have no one working on it en route? Looking for past instances of similar occurrences so you can begin to formulate a plan of action for when you arrive. Because if it is some type of natural phenomenon causing seismic disturbances on Vulcan... time could be crucial in saving lives.

Substitute the name Wesley Crusher for James T. Kirk and you'd have had people lined up around the block waiting to slice this apart.

But the only other similar occurrence, or common thread, is the lightning storm in space. The last time that happened the Kelvin was destroyed..but not an entire planet! So in many ways this is something new that is happening.

As I said the lightening storm in space could be such a minute detail of the destruction of the Kelvin that only a few people may be aware of the connection. Who knows, much of the details of what happened with the Narada and the Kelvin and the subsequent repercussions could be top secret and unknown to all except Kirk and others who experienced it first hand. I am sure Kirk's mother told him the story of his birth many times.

 

[Itisnotlogical]

What I don't get is why Kirk apparently stayed Captain after they all returned, bypassing years of training, several ranks, and Spock, Pike's real first officer before the crisis began.

 

[Tarek71]

No Google in the 23rd Century? Not one of the thousands of officers and crew en route to Vulcan stopped to look up 'lightening storm in space' to maybe get an inkling of what they're going to be dealing with upon arrival? By trying to make Kirk look like a genius, they made everyone else look incredibly incompetent. YMMV.

Even with them knowing about a 'lightening storm in space' why would anyone think that what was going on with Vulcan would be anything but a natural phenomenon? Unless someone on any of those other ships warping to Vulcan were experts on the minutia of what happened to the Kelvin there really isn't anything happening to arouse suspicion that what is occurring is not natural.

I don't think Kirk looking like a genius made the others look incompetent at all.

You're joking, right? You're a captain and you'd have no one working on it en route? Looking for past instances of similar occurrences so you can begin to formulate a plan of action for when you arrive. Because if it is some type of natural phenomenon causing seismic disturbances on Vulcan... time could be crucial in saving lives.

Substitute the name Wesley Crusher for James T. Kirk and you'd have had people lined up around the block waiting to slice this apart.

And Pike only wrote a frakkin dissertation on it! And yeah if lil Wesley thought of it should we make him a Captain? Kirk wasnt going on some expertise or brilliant deductive ability. Even if it was, they dont make you captain for it. You are just a junior or other officer doing your job, the way Data, Reed, Sato, Kim or anyone else ever did. How should a bridge operate? Junior officers are dunces who say "yes, sir", "no, sir" and only the genius Captains think of everything?

Its the job of junior officers to make suggestions, note anything that occurs to them, any patterns that seem familiar, etc. Well done Cadet Kirk! Maybe a commendation if you thought it was all that inspired. But you're not a Captain for that.

 

[BillJ]

Even with them knowing about a 'lightening storm in space' why would anyone think that what was going on with Vulcan would be anything but a natural phenomenon? Unless someone on any of those other ships warping to Vulcan were experts on the minutia of what happened to the Kelvin there really isn't anything happening to arouse suspicion that what is occurring is not natural.

I don't think Kirk looking like a genius made the others look incompetent at all.

You're joking, right? You're a captain and you'd have no one working on it en route? Looking for past instances of similar occurrences so you can begin to formulate a plan of action for when you arrive. Because if it is some type of natural phenomenon causing seismic disturbances on Vulcan... time could be crucial in saving lives.

Substitute the name Wesley Crusher for James T. Kirk and you'd have had people lined up around the block waiting to slice this apart.

But the only other similar occurrence, or common thread, i the lightning storm in space. The last time that happened the Kelvin was destroyed..but not an entire planet! So in many ways this is something new that is happening.

As I said the lightening storm in space could be such a minute detail of the destruction of the Kelvin that only a few people may be aware of the connection. Who knows much of the details what happened with the Narada and the Kelvin and the subsequent repercussions could be top secret and unknown to all accept Kirk.

And Pike who wrote a dissertation on the subject. And why would a Cadet/Lieutenant have access to that dissertation? Doesn't sound like it was a secret at all.

It just seems people go out of their way to make apologies for this particular film. People would be foaming at the mouth to go after this if it was Wesley Crusher.

 

[Gojira]

And Pike who wrote a dissertation on the subject. And why would a Cadet/Lieutenant have access to that dissertation? Doesn't sound like it was a secret at all.

It is very plausible that Pike remained in contact with Kirk and followed his studies at Star Fleet and allowed Kirk to read his dissertation. Heck, I have a dissertation for my degree that anyone is welcome to read! But since his mother lived through the whole lightning storm in space and the destruction of the Kelvin evens it is entierly plausible she told Kirk about it many times.

It just seems people go out of their way to make apologies for this particular film. People would be foaming at the mouth to go after this if it was Wesley Crusher.

I am only doing apologetics on the issue because others have questioned it. I feel no need to apologize for an aspect of the film that was never in question for me. But when questions do arise it is very easy to come up with plausible answers.

I am also a fan of TNG and have no problems with Wesley Crusher. I am not a Crusher hater.

 

[Cyke101]

I am also a fan of TNG and have no problems with Wesley Crusher. I am not a Crusher hater.

Well, *I'm* a Wesley hater but I think the animosity comes primarily from him being a prodigy that would upstage the senior staff. Get rid of the boy genius part but keep him on the acting-ensign/field commissioned ensign route and I don't think many people would have a problem with Wesley. But I mention that because Riker once put Wesley in command of an away team in "Pen Pals." I don't know how much authority Riker would have to even think of that kind of decision, and yes leading an away team is much less worrisome than appointing a cadet as XO, but there's precedent for surprising, youthful commands on-the-spot. At least in that case, nuKirk had 3 years of Academy experience compared to Wesley's zero by that point.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

and Spock, Pike's real first officer before the crisis began.

You mean that guy who never wanted to command a starship, that Spock.

 

[JarodRussell]

Why did Pike promote Kirk...

Pike realized that everyone aboard his starship was completely incompetent. His helmsman fucks up going to warp speed, his security lets people run around the ship (and also likes to get into bar fights), his communications officer can't speak Romulan, his russian kid officer can't make proper announcements, his medical officer allows people to illegaly board the ship and then lets them run around the whole ship, and his Vulcan science officer is an emotional wreckage.

So he put Kirk in charge and left the ship, because he thought getting tortured by a Romulan is much better than staying in that madhouse.

Kirk then fucked up his plan and "rescued" him. But fortunately, Pike was able to talk Starfleet command into promoting him so he'd never have to board that crazy ship again. I guess after the ceremony for Kirk he simply got up from his wheelchair and walked home.

 

[Excelsior]

Re: Why did Pike promote Kirk...

Because he liked the cut of his jib.

"Looking at him, I could immediately tell that he was a professional jib-cutter..."

 

[ShatnersToupee]

It's hilarious to hear people twist themselves into pretzels trying to defend this element of the plot (or the rest of the movie for that matter). Some fans are just total apologists for Star Trek. There was nothing plausible in Pike making Kirk the first officer or in Kirk jumping straight to Captain. OK, so he realized something no one else did. You don't promote someone to first officer for that. Imagine you're a cadet in the police academy and there's a serial killer on the loose. You discover something no one else has that could help solve the case. Should they now put you in charge of the investigation? Of course not. At best, they'll keep you around because you've proven to be a valuable asset. For Pike to decide that Kirk was the most qualified speaks volumes about what he thought of the rest of his crew and reflects poorly on him as a leader.

I agree that if you substitute Wesley Crusher for Jim Kirk, you'd get a very different reaction from fans. But because it's Kirk, the fanboys are willing to overlook the ridiculousness of the plot.

Someone mentioned Harry Kim being stuck at Ensign for seven years on Voyager. That's not plausible either. But keep in mind that was done to punish Garrett Wang. The producers didn't like him, he was the only Trek actor not allowed to direct an episode, and they only kept him on the show because he landed on that silly Most Beautiful Persons list.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Did JJ and the writers even have a choice? I always thought they were ordered, from the top brass on down, that Kirk was to be made Captain at the end of the movie no matter what.

 

[Nerd unRage]

I don't think it would have mattered if it had come from studio brass, it's the fans that would have cried foul if it hadn't happened. It didn't really matter so much what the movie was about, just as long as Kirk was captain at the end and the gang was all there on the Enterprise.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Abrams could always have done a "five years later" at the end. That would have worked fine.

 

[BillJ]

Abrams could always have done a "five years later" at the end. That would have worked fine.

And it would've given tie-in writers a nice little sandbox to play in.

 

[ShatnersToupee]

Abrams could always have done a "five years later" at the end. That would have worked fine.

Exactly. The movie shows the various phases of Kirk's life. His birth, him as a child, as a 20something with no direction, and finally as a cadet. But when they reached the end of his Academy days, it's like they were in a rush to get him into the Captain's chair? How bout showing him on his first assignment on a different ship? How bout showing him move up the ranks in a more believable way? Yeah, I realize it might slow down the pacing of the movie, but you could have had events in those settings tie into the overall plot with Nero. But the movie we were presented with didn't want to waste time showing us how Kirk earned the position of Captain. And notice how we needed Pike to tell us how much potential Kirk had. That's an example of lazy writing. You don't tell your audience how smart or talented your lead character is. You show them.

 

[Gojira]

Abrams could always have done a "five years later" at the end. That would have worked fine.

Even though I am one who doesn't really have a problem with Kirk becoming Captain at the end I do think this is a good idea.

But you know there is no mention in the movie of when this ceremony was so it could easily have been five years later or right after the mission.

But saying this was 5 years later would have been a bit more plausible.

 

[Ultramann]

Because Kirk saved the ship - he was the only one who had any idea what the fuck was going on.

The writers establish early in the story, BTW, that on first meeting Pike thinks Kirk possesses qualities that he finds lacking in the "modern" Starfleet. I'd imagine that Pike continued to watch Kirk's progress for three years at the Academy, and that putting him in a position of authority wasn't entirely a snap decision.

The problem was the writers wanted to go from cadet to captain in an hour and an half instead of focusing on Kirk, Spock, and McCoy in the Academy then going 10 15 years in the future to Lt Cmdr or Cmdr Kirk under Pike facing Nero and the assault on Vulcan.