• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Why did Data want to... (spoilers)

I think if you are advanced enough to recreate data you could pause his consciousness. Even the physical data could do that with a button Riker used during the trial and then they turned him back on.

I guess we can explain it as a limit of the USB sticks Soong was using
There is a lot of limits it seems with those, as well as the Data shadow.
 
Agreed. Also, Data already had a death in Nemesis close to 20 years ago; the writers could've focus more on the tired plot than what was given. The Star Trek android plots has been done forever and I was hoping the large team of producers could put something new to the table than universal destruction. Could androids uncover there's something beyond life as we know it? With these limited imaginations from the Kurtzman team, the answer is "No".

So, first off, PIC wasn't about androids. It was about finding meaning in the face of mortality and about the importance of family, about children, parents, and grandparents. The androids were just a plot device to facilitate what PIC was really about.

But also, I don't know how you bring Jean-Luc Picard back without making androids a central plot device for those themes. One of the most important relationships in his life was his relationship to Data. Data, in many ways, was his surrogate son; if you're doing a story about how a man at the end of his life contributes to the next generation, you almost have to introduce a character who is basically Data's daughter, because that gives you the thematic resonance and personal bond necessary for Picard to assume a grandfatherly role.

ETA:

You also can't bring back Picard with addressing the central trauma of his life (his assimilation into Locutus) -- and that means bringing back the Borg in some way. That logically leads to introducing the XBs -- and from there, it's only natural to make the relationship between organics and people made of machine parts (synths and XBs both) an important plot element. It all flows logically from the decision to make the show about Picard, because these are the central conflicts of his life.
 
So, first off, PIC wasn't about androids. It was about finding meaning in the face of mortality and about the importance of family, about children, parents, and grandparents. The androids were just a plot device to facilitate what PIC was really about.

But also, I don't know how you bring Jean-Luc Picard back without making androids a central plot device for those themes. One of the most important relationships in his life was his relationship to Data. Data, in many ways, was his surrogate son; if you're doing a story about how a man at the end of his life contributes to the next generation, you almost have to introduce a character who is basically Data's daughter, because that gives you the thematic resonance and personal bond necessary for Picard to assume a grandfatherly role.

Data was probably Picard's surrogate son in the movies, which I thought were dreadful, so I'll take your word for it, but I never saw that angle in the TV series.

You may not know how to bring Jean-Luc Picard back and that ridiculous plot device was good for you, but I remember Q's final moments with my beloved Captain. His words ringed true to me, and those words I would've started a series; leaving all of those ancient conflicts and finding something new... where no one has gone before.

PICARD
I sincerely hope that this is the last time that I find myself here.

Q
You just don't get it, Jean-Luc?

The trial never ends.

Wanted to see if you had the ability to expand your mind and your horizons. And one brief moment, you did.

PICARD
When I realized he paradox.

Q
Exactly. For that one fraction of a second you were open to options you had never considered. That is the exploration that awaits you, not mapping stars and studying nebulae but charting the unknown possibilities of existence.

PICARD
Q, what is it that you're trying to tell me?

Q leans forward to say something to our perplexed Captain, but then rises over him and smiles.

Q
You'll find out.

In any case, I'll be watching. And if you're very lucky I'll drop by to say hello from time to time. See you... out there.
 
Data was probably Picard's surrogate son in the movies, which I thought were dreadful, so I'll take your word for it, but I never saw that angle in the TV series.

You may not know how to bring Jean-Luc Picard back and that ridiculous plot device was good for you, but I remember Q's final moments with my beloved Captain. His words ringed true to me, and those words I would've started a series; leaving all of those ancient conflicts and finding something new... where no one has gone before.

PICARD
I sincerely hope that this is the last time that I find myself here.

Q
You just don't get it, Jean-Luc?

The trial never ends.

Wanted to see if you had the ability to expand your mind and your horizons. And one brief moment, you did.

PICARD
When I realized he paradox.

Q
Exactly. For that one fraction of a second you were open to options you had never considered. That is the exploration that awaits you, not mapping stars and studying nebulae but charting the unknown possibilities of existence.

PICARD
Q, what is it that you're trying to tell me?

Q leans forward to say something to our perplexed Captain, but then rises over him and smiles.

Q
You'll find out.

In any case, I'll be watching. And if you're very lucky I'll drop by to say hello from time to time. See you... out there.
My take on Q's lines was completely different and I felt the first episodes of Season 1 of Picard actually validated those lines. That the true ongoing trial was Picard dealing with a Federation that turned to isolationism, away from compassion, and towards bigotry and fear. That was humanity's ongoing trial.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Sci
Data was probably Picard's surrogate son in the movies, which I thought were dreadful, so I'll take your word for it, but I never saw that angle in the TV series.

You may not know how to bring Jean-Luc Picard back and that ridiculous plot device was good for you, but I remember Q's final moments with my beloved Captain. His words ringed true to me, and those words I would've started a series; leaving all of those ancient conflicts and finding something new... where no one has gone before.

PICARD
I sincerely hope that this is the last time that I find myself here.

Q
You just don't get it, Jean-Luc?

The trial never ends.

Wanted to see if you had the ability to expand your mind and your horizons. And one brief moment, you did.

PICARD
When I realized he paradox.

Q
Exactly. For that one fraction of a second you were open to options you had never considered. That is the exploration that awaits you, not mapping stars and studying nebulae but charting the unknown possibilities of existence.

PICARD
Q, what is it that you're trying to tell me?

Q leans forward to say something to our perplexed Captain, but then rises over him and smiles.

Q
You'll find out.

In any case, I'll be watching. And if you're very lucky I'll drop by to say hello from time to time. See you... out there.

Which is all well and good, but if the conflicts of the series are not grounded in the emotional life and important conflicts of the life of Jean-Luc Picard as depicted in TNG, then the decision to bring back Picard in particular rather than any other beloved older character becomes dramatically arbitrary. Grounding the conflicts of PIC in the emotional life and conflicts of that particular character justifies bringing the character back.
 
I assume that it wasn't possible to rebuild data's brain because they didn't have scans of Data's brain. It was vaporized. They were able to build Picard a new brain because they had scans of it taken at the moment of his death. They could just build a new identical one, just with that one problem fixed. As Data said, Picard wasn't a simulation. He was a physical brain connected to the simulation.

Simulated Data has Data's memories, but he doesn't have a physical brain. He's going to be stuck in that simulation for the foreseeable future. . And he'd rather experience death, than have an eternity in limbo.
 
Data had seen the elaborate lengths people were willing to go to in order to resurrect him that amounted to sticking him in a box. He'd saved Captain Picard, established a legacy, and saw himself to his full capacity.

People who crave immortality in real life won't understand Data's decision. They think they'd want to last until the heat death of the universe.

Data didn't.

I don't think of it as unrealistic.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top