Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?

[2takesfrakes]

I trust you'll enjoy your stay in Montreal, Ghislaine! A few years back, there, I had a girlfriend who was from Jolie. Unfortunately, she was bilingual and preferred English over French, so I didn't get to use it much with her. But for a birthday present, she gave me some books on how to improve on my French, so maybe that's why! Anyway, you wanted to know why it's so hard to accept Mulgrew's decision on not allowing a Janeway/Chakotay relationship.

For me, it's because it held Chakotay back, I feel. It weakened his character - and I know I've said this, before. I mean, yes, he still got laid by other women ... here & there ... along the way. But they all had the same problem: They weren't Kathryn. Even when he finally got with Seven, you know - you just KNOW - that he would've preferred it was with The Good Captain. And that's not how it should've been. Chakotay should've taken a leaf out of Riker's book. Chakotay played the game too straight. That's another part of the problem. He's one of my favourite characters, but when it comes to women of the opposite sex, there's only one that will ever do: the only one he can't ever have. Didn't Chakotay suffer enough hardships and deprivations, as it was?

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

I trust you'll enjoy your stay in Montreal, Ghislaine! A few years back, there, I had a girlfriend who was from Jolie. Unfortunately, she was bilingual and preferred English over French, so I didn't get to use it much with her. But for a birthday present, she gave me some books on how to improve on my French, so maybe that's why! Anyway, you wanted to know why it's so hard to accept Mulgrew's decision on not allowing a Janeway/Chakotay relationship.

I adored my stay in Montreal, town which I know quite well now (I already went over there 5 times and in a certain time, I thought very seriously of living in this big city ... until I learn that the temperature achieved-40°C in winter. Too freezing for me! ). In fact, it's almost a obligatory pilgrimage to make at least once in the life of all French people! . And for information, the number of Frenchies living in Montreal amounts to +100 000 on 1,65 million.
(my only problem was to understand Montréalais speaking English! I'm going to need watching more US series/movies in their original versions to get the accent!)

For me, it's because it held Chakotay back, I feel. It weakened his character - and I know I've said this, before. I mean, yes, he still got laid by other women ... here & there ... along the way. But they all had the same problem: They weren't Kathryn. Even when he finally got with Seven, you know - you just KNOW - that he would've preferred it was with The Good Captain. And that's not how it should've been. Chakotay should've taken a leaf out of Riker's book. Chakotay played the game too straight. That's another part of the problem. He's one of my favourite characters, but when it comes to women of the opposite sex, there's only one that will ever do: the only one he can't ever have. Didn't Chakotay suffer enough hardships and deprivations, as it was?

Of course, Seven isn't Kathryn but at the end, it is nonetheless the ex-Borg he chose, not as the love of his life, as producers/writers tried to persuade us, but just as a sexy consolation prize, nothing more and what was sad because the way Chakotay and Seven acted to each other (they took advantage of each other) and towards to Janeway (none of the them did have the decency to inform her, not only as their superior officer but just as their friend for Chakotay and a surrogate mother for Seven), was far from the way their characters were described throughout the series: loyal, sensitive, respectful of people, compassionate, logical, responsible... .
Again, even if I was happy to notice that the producers haven't given in to the J/Cmania, an open question concerning their relationship (friendship or romance) would have suited me as well.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Ghislaine, you bring up a good point about Chakotay & 7 informing Janeway of their incredible Love. You did say that you meant that they should've done so as a show of friendship and integrity, but let me add this:

You're right. Chakotay should've told Kathryn, but for another reason, entirely: To give her a final chance at taking him to bed, before he committed further to the Seven relationship. The realisation that she may well be losing him might just do the trick. Instead, Chakotay and Seven were Silent Partners in what became something very transitory. A Love like that won't last ...

 

[Christian Weston Chandler]

Because Seven is very beautiful.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Well ... I don't know about all that.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Because Seven is very beautiful.

I have a very effective argument that that cat suit she is wearing is a still-suit (like from Dune) for at least the first year, so she smells of shit, and you can hear the drainage bag from her catheter going slosh-slosh-slosh whenever and where-ever she walks.

Also, the Doctor made her pubic hair.

 

[Sophie74656]

I have a very effective argument that that cat suit she is wearing is a still-suit (like from Dune) for at least the first year, so she smells of shit, and you can hear the drainage bag form her catheter going slosh-slosh-slosh whenever and whereever she walks.

Also, the Doctor made her pubic hair.

I need a LOVE button for this

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

I have a very effective argument that that cat suit she is wearing is a still-suit (like from Dune) for at least the first year, so she smells of shit, and you can hear the drainage bag from her catheter going slosh-slosh-slosh whenever and where-ever she walks.

Also, the Doctor made her pubic hair.

Thank you Guy Gardener, you managed to make me laugh and I needed that after the bad night & day I spent!

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Ghislaine, you bring up a good point about Chakotay & 7 informing Janeway of their incredible Love. You did say that you meant that they should've done so as a show of friendship and integrity, but let me add this:

You're right. Chakotay should've told Kathryn, but for another reason, entirely: To give her a final chance at taking him to bed, before he committed further to the Seven relationship. The realisation that she may well be losing him might just do the trick. Instead, Chakotay and Seven were Silent Partners in what became something very transitory. A Love like that won't last ...

In admitting that Janeway was trully interested in pursuing a relationship with Chakotay, nothing could have happened while Voyager still was in DQ, fighting to go home. She was very clear about that issue right the beginning (1x02 or 1x03) but a sort of promise made to try, at their return on Earth (with no more hierarchical barrier & close proximity), in the bend of a discussion, could have been a
After, it would have been J/C shippers to make this relationship works... or not.

Except a few inflexible C/7 shippers, I totally agree with you, this surprising couple wouldn't hold for a long time because well, they are together for simply bad reasons but worst, this relationship highlighted the worse in them (lust, egoism, betrayal of confidence & rules, question of ego), while yet it seems to me that love is exactly supposed to highlight the better in us.
Here, Chakotay & Seven's attitude did not grow them and I regret the sour taste let in the mouth ... .ST: Voyager didn't deserve that but this misadventure demonstrated to what extent ST producers/writers sucked to write love stories)!

 

[2takesfrakes]

In the Alpha Quadrant, Chakotay will have gone directly from famine to feast, as it were. Where there was once only the desperate hope of bedding Kathryn on the menu, now, there's a buffet of women spread out, before him ... from which to pick and choose ... to sample from. A little here ... some more there ... So that, suddenly, Chakotay's infatuation with The Good Captain decreases, rapidly, in favour of an active, healthy Lifestyle. One involving a social life that's far more substantial than wishing ... and hoping. He can now enjoy all that a woman has to give an hombre. And without dancing to Janeway's shrill and joyless tune.

As to Chakotay's encounter with Seven ... by this time, the choice has been made for him. He's scraping the barrel, here. Either get with The Borg Lady, or it's back to Short Rations, again. Under the cover of darkness, a cottonseed is the same as a pearle, is it not? But, then, there's the inevitable Morning After, especially if she's sleeping on his arm and he can't pull it out from under her, without waking her up.

Push her, gently, so she rolls over or something, on her own, in her sleep ... but no. She won't budge. Now, he has to make conversation, when she wakes up and make promises better left ... unspoken. "So ... how was it? Am I the best you've ever had, Chakotay?" ... "Hmm? Oh ... yeah. Yes! Yes, of course ... and only The Very Best will ever do."

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

I think it could be interesting.
The interviewer declares to Mulgrew to be impatient to see more romance for her character (supposed with Chakotay) and, this is her answer...

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[2takesfrakes]

At least in the pages between the cover of a STAR TREK novel, or two ... Chakotay & Kathryn kiss their fast "goodbye."

 

[Catarina]

My head went into the gutter. (In reference to video above) "This is what I want to do. I want to try to dock with Voyager and their sexy Captain, Kate Mulgrew."

 

[Sophie74656]

At least in the pages between the cover of a STAR TREK novel, or two ... Chakotay & Kathryn kiss their fast "goodbye."

Spoilers...

They do get together in the newer novels. But I'm not crazy about the way their relationship is. It feels like there is a lack of trust between the, that both are afraid to open up to the other.

There was also an interesting scene with Janeway and a higher up admiral about her relationship with Chuckles...he basically told her that if she wanted to be with him they need to get married.

 

[2takesfrakes]

If STARFLEET wanted its people to have spouses ... it would've issued them one!

Were I a writer for the show, I would've kept the focus more on Tom & B'Elanna's love, as they're young. Chakotay & Kathryn would still have their little moments ... Just enough to remind the audience that they're knocking boots, when the workday is over.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

I felt like Seven was Chakotay's midlife crisis. All he needed to do was steal the Delta Flyer and paint it red.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Seven, a midlife crisis... ABSOLUTELY and we all know how this kind of crisis usually ends: badly and painfully for at less, one of people concerned but hey, our angry warrior is known to be the one "qui cherche le bâton pour se faire battre" (who looks for the stick to be beaten), right?! (Seska, Janeway, Seven...).
He would do much better to withdraw in a monastery of the 24th century and to spend his time to make incantations and searches in anthropology, his range of knowledge. I bet that he would be happier!

 

[2takesfrakes]

But Ghislaine, Man cannot live on bread alone! Though he be fictional, Chakotay has his needs. It's true though, that he had bad taste in women - only Kellin was really in the 'hot' category - and that Janeway, too, had bad taste in Men. If only the two could just combine? They're of similar ages and their differences compliment eachother, so it would seem. But then again, I can easily imagine Seska being a very passionate lover, whilst Janeway seems like she's - well, not a cold fish, but - all about scratching the itch and being done with it.

Would Chakotay be so interested in that? It's been argued that Seven would be rather mechanical in the saddle,. due to her mindset and so forth, but she might be like the Vulcans, in that regard: cold and logical in the Living Room and all Pon Farr in the bedroom. She's Human - Borg, even - I know, but I've always suspected that might apply to her. She is built for Sin, after all ...

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

But Ghislaine, Man cannot live on bread alone! Though he be fictional, Chakotay has his needs. It's true though, that he had bad taste in women - only Kellin was really in the 'hot' category - and that Janeway, too, had bad taste in Men. If only the two could just combine? They're of similar ages and their differences compliment eachother, so it would seem. But then again, I can easily imagine Seska being a very passionate lover, whilst Janeway seems like she's - well, not a cold fish, but - all about scratching the itch and being done with it.

Would Chakotay be so interested in that? It's been argued that Seven would be rather mechanical in the saddle,. due to her mindset and so forth, but she might be like the Vulcans, in that regard: cold and logical in the Living Room and all Pon Farr in the bedroom. She's Human - Borg, even - I know, but I've always suspected that might apply to her. She is built for Sin, after all ...

Of course, 2takesfrakes, men - like women, besides - cannot live on bread alone but seriously, when a guy like Chakotay manages to make so much bad choices about women (on 4 women whom we know him during the long journey of 7 years, the 1st eventually betrayed him, the 2nd refused herself to him, the 3rd was an alien and the 4th, an ex--Borg in search of her humanity who must see our Chak as an experience), it might be necessary for him to step back for awhile and just to wonder why he doesn't manage to keep a woman by his side, who would love him for what he is, a good guy who looks for answers in the spirituality.

About Janeway's attitude, I tend to disagree with when you write that she is like an cold fish. She showed on 2 occasions to what extent she could be passionate an be very passionated :Krashyk (yes, he was a bad guy but their little game of seduction was quite indicative of a certain attraction and it wasn't only physical -, in my opinion -> he was for Janeway what Seska was for Chakotay!) and later Jaffen (we saw Kathryn Janeway falling in love, not the Capitain but the woman).
-> I know that Janeway/Paris never happened but I think that this pairing would have made sparks according to their characters!

I don't know if Janeway's and Chakotay complement each other but one thing is certain, Janeway is married to Starfleet to the point that even profoundly in love with Chakotay, he would always come second and even third, if Seven was around!
The question in this case is: would Chakotay accept to play, for the rest of his life, the 3rd wheel of the carriage? I'd bet that not and it would be normal! He accepted for 7 long years to play 2nd fiddle because of events but as Janeway's lover or even husband, he will expect to be treated as her equal in and out of their house, what implies that he will try to weigh in her personal and professional decisions to shrunk significantly..., what would be inacceptable for someone like Janeway, who doesn't share her responsabilities/power.
Plus, Chakotay, even after 7 years, showed how much he kept thinking as a rebel for whom all the ways are good to reach the purpose while Janeway think as a Starfleet commanding officer, full of principles. Many tensions and disagreements in perpective...

In the end, I would say that there are too many insurmountable differences between Janeway and Chakotay so that their love relation blooms. Of course, I know that in books, they slept together and keep seeing each other but well, I can't imagine them ending together. Sorry!.

 

[2takesfrakes]

... Chakotay manages to make so much bad choices about women [...] it might be necessary for him to step back for awhile and just to wonder why he doesn't manage to keep a woman by his side ...

... Ouch!

Actually, I feel we have to give Chakotay some leeway, on this point. First and foremost, women are always so sweet, in the beginning. However whacked out a woman is, otherwise, she always manages to contain herself, somehow, until some deeper commitment is secured. And then, you just figure it's PMS, or something, at first. But she doesn't revert to her former glory, ever. So, it's like ... there's that part to contend with. But, fortunately, if you're of the mind to say, "well ... F that," there are plenty of women from which to select. Then, it's just a matter of getting back in the saddle. But the Delta Quadrant has a way of turning that around.

There, Chakotay's made to suffer many hardships. Many deprivations. Options are limited. Choices are few. And he's not in his prime like Tom Paris, so even when he does end up with a woman, he's not getting the Rain Robinsons. He's getting Cougars who are embittered ... unable to take it out on their exes ... Chakotay's made to take the full brunt. Janeway didn't do his Love Life any favours on that front, (by stranding Voyager in the DQ), nor where his crush on her was concerned. A crush resulting - almost entirely - from his forced fast. Were they in the Alpha Quadrant, then he'd just be all like, "... yeah, I'd tap that ass," but it wouldn't have ever gone further than that, until she acquiesced.

About Janeway's attitude, I tend to disagree with when you write that she is like an cold fish. She showed on 2 occasions to what extent she could be passionate an be very passionated

... You've got a point. You do have a point, there. I must admit. Still ... I don't know ... I just get this vibe from her, like she's the kind who'll only take you half the way there and just leave it at that.

-> I know that Janeway/Paris never happened but I think that this pairing would have made sparks according to their characters!

The young guys in the audience aren't going to want to witness Tom getting hit on by a cougar, especially when she's his boss and not some alien of the week, or whatever. Kathryn was well-preserved, in that you could tell she was kind of cute, in her day. But, uh ... yeah, I don't know. She was starting to lose her do-ability, from a younger Man's perspective. Sparks wouldn't enter into the equation, even if she were his Sugar Momma, in a world that ran on money ... which it didn't. I'm sorry ... it was simply not meant to happen and I thank Providence that this was not forced upon us. Tom's not the most handsome of Men, but he did need to get with women in their child-bearing years. And the cuter, the better ...

I don't know if Janeway's and Chakotay complement each other but [...]
In the end, I would say that there are too many insurmountable differences between Janeway and Chakotay so that their love relation blooms. Of course, I know that in books, they slept together and keep seeing each other but well, I can't imagine them ending together. Sorry!.

As Friends with Benefits, they would've been a perfect fit for eachother, whist they were both on short rations, in the Delta Quadrant. When someone else came along for either of them, then ... yes, of course, the friendship is in full force. But, when it's down to a choice of banging a holodeck character or sleeping with eachother, it's really good to know that's available. Because the holodeck is such bullshit ... a Man needs something far more substantial.