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Why Admiral Paris was Played by Two Actors

it would have went against military protocol for him to have said anything at the time.

I'm not following. :confused:

Are you saying that Tom couldn't have replied to his father even if he'd wanted to? I always assumed that Tom was too overwhelmed by the experience to say anything. Why would it have been a violation of any regulation for Tom to have spoken?

As for the recasting: This has been going on since Trek has existed. I don't understand why recasting Admiral Paris is in any way more unusual than anything else. As stardream already pointed out, his change in attitude is easily explainable...
 
From what I understand when someone like an Admiral shows up he speaks first to the highest ranking officer present which in this case was Captain Janeway. No speaking to the Admiral unless he speaks to you first...and that includes family members.

Now what might have happened if Tom had blurted out "Dad!" because he was so surprised I have no idea but Tom grew up in Starfleet where correct behavior was probably ingrained. I remember his conversation with Harry way back in "The Cloud' about how 'rank' works. He would know.
 
Different actors played the same roles in Star Trek all the time. Tora Ziyal and Alexander Rozhenko were played by three different people. Zefram Cochrane and the Romulan Neral were played by two different people (and neither of the actors who portrayed each character the second time looked anything like the first actors.)

And, uh, remember Saavik anyone?
They also had the same actress play T'Pel in Persistence of Vision and Body and Soul....but a different actress played her in Bliss in the interim.
 
From what I understand when someone like an Admiral shows up he speaks first to the highest ranking officer present which in this case was Captain Janeway. No speaking to the Admiral unless he speaks to you first...and that includes family members.

Does Starfleet operate on protocol that's this strict?
 
Does Starfleet operate on protocol that's this strict?

I honestly have no idea. I'm sure there are some people around here who would know more about it than me but judging by that conversation that Tom and Harry had back in The Cloud they probably do.
 
Or, as stardream suggested, it was Tom who was the jackass, and his imagined version of his father was influenced by that.

Just because Tom thought his father was a jerk doesn't mean Tom was *right*...the "real" Admiral Paris was basically a decent guy who didn't deserve Tom insulting him behind his back.
Nah, my gut feeling says that Tom was right in this case!

As for the "two Admiral Paris" case, I do think that everyone here should consider my theory which I presented in an earlier post because it's a logic theory which solves the Nick Locarno question, Tom's hatred against his father and the mysterious appearance of two Admiral Paris in the series. :bolian:
 
I'm not following. :confused:

Are you saying that Tom couldn't have replied to his father even if he'd wanted to? I always assumed that Tom was too overwhelmed by the experience to say anything. Why would it have been a violation of any regulation for Tom to have spoken?

As for the recasting: This has been going on since Trek has existed. I don't understand why recasting Admiral Paris is in any way more unusual than anything else. As stardream already pointed out, his change in attitude is easily explainable...

This is what I thought as well, the first time I saw it. That he was too shocked to say anything at the time. But according to a comment in another thread* (and Star Dream said it in this thread) that it was a military protocol. But who knows if the writers actually knew this. In the context of the story if they had more time before the wormhold collapsed, perhaps Tom could have spoke to him.

*I think the thread that I saw this in may have been one I started about how it seemed like the writers didn't resolve anything.
 
Imagining your father as a jerk is one thing, imagining them looking like a different person is another.

Then, in Pathfinder, the rift between them is instantaneously healed so even Tom's view of his father as a dick was unbelievably transient.
Bad continuity however you spin it.

Nothing new in the series as the feeling seems to be instilled in the writers that emotional disturbances or crises, are required to be solved with no real solution, just sort of a he/she will just buck up because it's a convenient time saving means of ending the conflict, and besides no one really wants to see a character going through the actual tedious hard work that's required to recover from a traumatic experience. See Extreme Risk and Mortal Coil, amongst others, that balance off the occasional Latent Image.

Nah, my gut feeling says that Tom was right in this case!

As for the "two Admiral Paris" case, I do think that everyone here should consider my theory which I presented in an earlier post because it's a logic theory which solves the Nick Locarno question, Tom's hatred against his father and the mysterious appearance of two Admiral Paris in the series. :bolian:

Lynx, I'm not sure I know what to say. I honestly thought your first two posts on this were meant as jokes, elaborate and unfunny ones at that. But you are actually in earnest. I know there have been threads about Locarno and Paris, but is there really any question that needs to be focused on defining the character's in-universe connection?. My understanding is that they are different because of the compensation issue that would've become involved with the writer(s) that dealt with Locarno. they're not the same people in canon, so what's the point of all these mental gymnastics? Aside from anything else, Ichabod? Really? OK, maybe there's a in-universe reason to reconcile their identities that I'm simply unaware of as part of the gaps in my Trek knowledge, but otherwise, I'll readily admit I just don't get this construction of yours.:shrug:
 
In "Persistence of Vision" Admiral Paris was a very one-dimensional character, the overbearing, unhelpful Admiral who was not the father anyone would want. The actor they cast for that did the task well.

In "Pathfinder" and forward, the character became more than a caricature of the lousy dad. He was an Admiral who had to weigh duty, protocol and procedure against the prospect of reconnecting with his son. A different actor was used because it was a different character, also given that the first actor had only appeared in two scenes in an episode 4 years prior, it's easy for them to want to change the actor if they so desired.
 
Nothing new in the series as the feeling seems to be instilled in the writers that emotional disturbances or crises, are required to be solved with no real solution, just sort of a he/she will just buck up because it's a convenient time saving means of ending the conflict, and besides no one really wants to see a character going through the actual tedious hard work that's required to recover from a traumatic experience. See Extreme Risk and Mortal Coil, amongst others, that balance off the occasional Latent Image.



Lynx, I'm not sure I know what to say. I honestly thought your first two posts on this were meant as jokes, elaborate and unfunny ones at that. But you are actually in earnest. I know there have been threads about Locarno and Paris, but is there really any question that needs to be focused on defining the character's in-universe connection?. My understanding is that they are different because of the compensation issue that would've become involved with the writer(s) that dealt with Locarno. they're not the same people in canon, so what's the point of all these mental gymnastics? Aside from anything else, Ichabod? Really? OK, maybe there's a in-universe reason to reconcile their identities that I'm simply unaware of as part of the gaps in my Trek knowledge, but otherwise, I'll readily admit I just don't get this construction of yours.:shrug:

Well, let's say that it was a constructive attempt done with some humor. :)

If you check my Kes Website, there is a page there called "Voyager Mysteries-and how to solve them" on which I've tried to sort out some odd things and contradictions in the series, some attempts a bit humoristic and some attempts very serious. I can't help having a weird sense of humor!

The reason for that was actually serious. While watching the series, I could sometimes be somewhat annoyed at the contradictions and inconsistences which showed up in one episode after another, so during the constant ongoing work with the Voyager Timeline and the Crew List (which can also be found on the site), I started to come up with a lot of ideas for explaining and correction those things, like the endless amount of shuttles and torpedoes which I explained with "The Shuttle and Torpedo Building Team".

I guess that have become a habit for me, however it's not ment to annoy or insult. More an attept to come up with sometimes humor-coated but mostly serious explanations for all those contradictions.

As for Ichabod, I was watching CSI Cyber the day before this thread come up and they were discussing the real identity of a cyber criminal. One of the team members said something about "Could his real name be something like Ichabod?"

The name struck and therefore I used it for the "other Admiral Paris".
 
Slightly mad at myself. Husband just left for work and as he grew up in a military family I was going to ask about the whole protocol thing and I forgot. I'll talk to him later today. He would know.
 
How do we know Tom didn't have two dads? Both named Owen and both Starfleet admirals? He didn't get along with either of them but the one in Persistence Of Vision is the one he hated the most.
 
Well, everybody's talking about different actors, same character, conflicts with father, contracts and royalties, writers and scripts and this and that.

But all we are saying, is give Ichabod a chance!

All we are saying, is give Ichabod a chance!

(sing it one more time to the tune of "Give Peace A Chance" by John Lennon) :)
 
Then, in Pathfinder, the rift between them is instantaneously healed so even Tom's view of his father as a dick was unbelievably transient.

Bad continuity however you spin it.
Or you could call it growing up.

Or it could have something to do with the fact that Tom had vanished in the Delta Quadrant. He didn't know if he would ever see his dad again. Admiral Paris didn't know if he would ever see his son again. At some point you stop being mad at the person, and you start missing them. Young Tom probably was an asshole (he was in prison when we first met him!). Admiral Paris was also probably an asshole. Maybe they both simply realized that they were both assholes and that it was time to forgive each other and move on.
 
How do we know Tom didn't have two dads? Both named Owen and both Starfleet admirals? He didn't get along with either of them but the one in Persistence Of Vision is the one he hated the most.

Works for me. Stranger things happen, usually on Wednesdays.
 
How do we know Tom didn't have two dads? Both named Owen and both Starfleet admirals? He didn't get along with either of them but the one in Persistence Of Vision is the one he hated the most.

We need a Star Trek prequel, which is also a reboot of the 80s sitcom 'My Two Dads' I'm sure Greg Evigan and Paul Reiser are available.
 
Or you could call it growing up.

Or it could have something to do with the fact that Tom had vanished in the Delta Quadrant. He didn't know if he would ever see his dad again. Admiral Paris didn't know if he would ever see his son again. At some point you stop being mad at the person, and you start missing them. Young Tom probably was an asshole (he was in prison when we first met him!). Admiral Paris was also probably an asshole. Maybe they both simply realized that they were both assholes and that it was time to forgive each other and move on.

Growing up doesn't happen instantly. Tom wasn't a disgruntled cherub sucking on the patriarchal memory teet. He had no development and screamed for his father to get out of his life in "Persistence of Vision." Each crew member saw their person as they personally percieved them to be. Tom saw a total dick.

The immediate transformation was bad Voyager continuity. They should have dealt with it properly and explored the relationship (building on what was seen Persistence of Vision and 30 days) or simply had a different avuncular character be the head of Pathfinder.
 
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If anyone is interested my husband, a military brat, informed me that, yes, the Admiral (or General) will speak first to the highest ranking officer in a group. Underlings do not speak to him (or her) unless he (or she) speaks to them first.
This includes family members. He said they did it correctly in the episode Pathfinder.

Now if it had been a situation where Paris as a Lieutenant was in a group with a bunch of ensigns, he would have spoken to Tom first but it wouldn't be a 'How you doing son?" sort of thing.

Now how Starfleet does it...I don't know.
 
How do we know Tom didn't have two dads? Both named Owen and both Starfleet admirals? He didn't get along with either of them but the one in Persistence Of Vision is the one he hated the most.

Because the odds of all that happening the way you described are pretty slim. Plus, nobody ever made any statement to the effect that Tom had two dads, much less Tom. And you'd think that if he had two parents with the same name, he would have mentioned that regardless of what sex they were.
 
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