Whovian Whumor

[Bob The Skutter]

cool...

Think you mean... Heavy!

 

[wamdue]

I have a question about the Ballad of Russel & Julie, when did they bring Jack back to fight against the Cybermen?

Ok so there was the Torchwood episode "Cyberwoman" but apart from that, Jack has only come back to fight the Master/ Toclafane & the Daleks.

 

[OmahaStar]

I have a question about the Ballad of Russel & Julie, when did they bring Jack back to fight against the Cybermen?

Ok so there was the Torchwood episode "Cyberwoman" but apart from that, Jack has only come back to fight the Master/ Toclafane & the Daleks.

Jack was part of Torchwood ... Torchwood, Canary Warf, Daleks fighting Cybermen ... It works if you don't think too hard about it.

 

[Iamnotspock]

Thanks for the transcription and annotations - I got most of the references but not all of them. But I don't get the Ming Mong bit. Is this some nickname or something? The page on that link seems to be just copied from Wikipedia.

You're welcome. Try this interview with RTD and Benjamin Cook on The Writer's Tale;

“‘Ming-mong’ is entirely down to Clayton Hickman and Gareth Roberts,” Benjamin explains mischievously, neatly absolving himself of any responsibility, “after having seen a 1980s episode of Victoria Wood’s sketch show. Jim Broadbent was playing Doctor Who, and Victoria Wood was playing his assistant, and one of the lines in that is ‘Doctor, have you got the ming-mongs?’, which was just a line to stand in for any of the technobabble you get on Doctor Who. And it’s just the most brilliant term. It’s used – with absolute affection, always – towards [Doctor Who fans].

“I am proud to say that I am a ming-mong,” Benjamin Cook grins, much to the amusement of the man sitting next to him.

“I’m trying to clamp down on [that word],” interrupts Russell T Davies – for it is he! – “because I don’t like it.”

“Whereas I disagree with Russell completely on that,” Benjamin counters, “and will try to get ‘ming-mong’ into every conversation, because it’s a wonderful word. I am a ming-mong!”

I have a question about the Ballad of Russel & Julie, when did they bring Jack back to fight against the Cybermen?

They didn't, it just scans well.

 

[23skidoo]

^ I had a feeling "ming mong" was an in-joke!

One thing that I found really cool about that video was how they snuck in photos of Verity Lambert and Terry Nation (guess they couldn't find one of Sydney). Nice touch, there.

I'm surprised more isn't being made of the naughty word David utters re: John's anatomy! I'll have to confess I also heard something completely different when he sings about "E4's Skins". Think about it.

Alex

 

[wamdue]

I have a question about the Ballad of Russel & Julie, when did they bring Jack back to fight against the Cybermen?

Ok so there was the Torchwood episode "Cyberwoman" but apart from that, Jack has only come back to fight the Master/ Toclafane & the Daleks.

Jack was part of Torchwood ... Torchwood, Canary Warf, Daleks fighting Cybermen ... It works if you don't think too hard about it.

but Jack was not part of Torchwood 1, so even thinking about it for a moment it doesnt work, yet alone thinking hard about it.

 

[OmahaStar]

I have a question about the Ballad of Russel & Julie, when did they bring Jack back to fight against the Cybermen?

Ok so there was the Torchwood episode "Cyberwoman" but apart from that, Jack has only come back to fight the Master/ Toclafane & the Daleks.

Jack was part of Torchwood ... Torchwood, Canary Warf, Daleks fighting Cybermen ... It works if you don't think too hard about it.

but Jack was not part of Torchwood 1, so even thinking about it for a moment it doesnt work, yet alone thinking hard about it.

"They had Cybermen in Spain" - Ten, to Donna in Runaway Bride. They were all over the world, not just in that one centralized place. We just call it the CW battle for convenience, cuz that's where it ended.

Surely, Jack and his TW team were fighting the Cybs somewhere.

 

[Iamnotspock]

I'm surprised more isn't being made of the naughty word David utters re: John's anatomy! I'll have to confess I also heard something completely different when he sings about "E4's Skins". Think about it.

How did that get past them?

 

[wamdue]

Jack was part of Torchwood ... Torchwood, Canary Warf, Daleks fighting Cybermen ... It works if you don't think too hard about it.

but Jack was not part of Torchwood 1, so even thinking about it for a moment it doesnt work, yet alone thinking hard about it.

"They had Cybermen in Spain" - Ten, to Donna in Runaway Bride. They were all over the world, not just in that one centralized place. We just call it the CW battle for convenience, cuz that's where it ended.

Surely, Jack and his TW team were fighting the Cybs somewhere.

I suppose it is possible that Torchwood Hub, had a Cyber invasion of its own to deal with, but if we are going to over think it, wouldnt Jack have something to say about the whole plan, and the pretence that its ghosts?

I had so far made the choice not to comment about RTDs and Skins

 

[OmahaStar]

but Jack was not part of Torchwood 1, so even thinking about it for a moment it doesnt work, yet alone thinking hard about it.

"They had Cybermen in Spain" - Ten, to Donna in Runaway Bride. They were all over the world, not just in that one centralized place. We just call it the CW battle for convenience, cuz that's where it ended.

Surely, Jack and his TW team were fighting the Cybs somewhere.

I suppose it is possible that Torchwood Hub, had a Cyber invasion of its own to deal with, but if we are going to over think it, wouldnt Jack have something to say about the whole plan, and the pretence that its ghosts?

I had so far made the choice not to comment about RTDs and Skins

That's why I say it works if you don't think too hard about it. Because when you do start really thinking about Jack and Torchwood, the whole thing falls apart. Secret agency that everybody knows about. Future technology. Time agency, with other time agents roaming about at whim. He is spying on the various Doctors, but they don't know about it. He wants to meet up with a Doctor that matches his timeline, but can't seem to find one in the various World Wars, when JFK was shot, during the Titanic adventure (both from "Rose"), or any of the other various points in time the Doctor visited Earth in the 20th century?

He had to wait 120 or so years before he could talk to him, but share everything with this same organization that's founded specifically to kill the Doctor?

RTD era --> big ideas = good. details = god-awful.

 

[The Wormhole]

but Jack was not part of Torchwood 1, so even thinking about it for a moment it doesnt work, yet alone thinking hard about it.

"They had Cybermen in Spain" - Ten, to Donna in Runaway Bride. They were all over the world, not just in that one centralized place. We just call it the CW battle for convenience, cuz that's where it ended.

Surely, Jack and his TW team were fighting the Cybs somewhere.

I suppose it is possible that Torchwood Hub, had a Cyber invasion of its own to deal with, but if we are going to over think it, wouldnt Jack have something to say about the whole plan, and the pretence that its ghosts?

It was established in season 2 that when Jack took over Torchwood in Cardiff, he cut of all ties with Torchwood London. So he likely had no say in the ghost plan and its possible (though unlikely) he didn't know Torchwood was involved.

 

[Chris3123]

He wants to meet up with a Doctor that matches his timeline, but can't seem to find one in the various World Wars,

While 11 was there for WW2, there was no appropriate version of the Doctor present for WW1.

when JFK was shot, during the Titanic adventure (both from "Rose"),

And both were the Ninth Doctor. That rules out either matching with Jack's timeline, since 9 regenerated right after Jack last saw him.

or any of the other various points in time the Doctor visited Earth in the 20th century?

True. After a quick glance at a list of Tennant episodes, I counted about 11 adventures prior to Utopia where the Doctor landed on Earth between Jack's arrival in 1869 and when Jack finally met up with him.

 

[Guartho]

when JFK was shot, during the Titanic adventure (both from "Rose"),

And both were the Ninth Doctor. That rules out either matching with Jack's timeline, since 9 regenerated right after Jack last saw him.

Yes, but Jack should have had no way of knowing that. I imagine that the he probably just didn't learn of the Doctor's presence at those events until after the fact. Jack turns up to investigate, but the Doctor is already long gone. It'd be pretty difficult, even with modern conveniences like transcontinental jet travel to get to a Doctor appearance before he buggers off, even if you find out about it the instant he arrives.

After all, doesn't Jack camp out on the rift in Wales because he knows the Doctor will come back to that exact place eventually?

 

[Chris3123]

when JFK was shot, during the Titanic adventure (both from "Rose"),

And both were the Ninth Doctor. That rules out either matching with Jack's timeline, since 9 regenerated right after Jack last saw him.

Yes, but Jack should have had no way of knowing that.

True, though my point was more that they weren't the Doctor Jack was looking for, rather than whether he would know.

I imagine that the he probably just didn't learn of the Doctor's presence at those events until after the fact. Jack turns up to investigate, but the Doctor is already long gone. It'd be pretty difficult, even with modern conveniences like transcontinental jet travel to get to a Doctor appearance before he buggers off, even if you find out about it the instant he arrives.

Yeah.

After all, doesn't Jack camp out on the rift in Wales because he knows the Doctor will come back to that exact place eventually?

Exactly.

ETA: I think we are overthinking this a bit.

 

[Iamnotspock]

Oh, dear God. Guys, guys, guys; it's supposed to be funny. No, Jack never met the Cybermen but the line fits and (just about) rhymes! This kind of discussion is precisely what the Comic Book Guy has been taking the pee out of for the last twenty years.

ETA: I think we are overthinking this a bit.

QFT.

 

[Neroon]

cool...

Think you mean... Heavy!

There's that word again; "heavy". Why are things so heavy in the future? Is there a problem with the earth's gravitational pull?

Making this print from James Hance particularly appropriate:

 

[wamdue]

Oh, dear God. Guys, guys, guys; it's supposed to be funny. No, Jack never met the Cybermen but the line fits and (just about) rhymes! This kind of discussion is precisely what the Comic Book Guy has been taking the pee out of for the last twenty years.

but isnt that the point of the song, they said they would do all of those things, and they did, but they didnt do that one, it seems to undermine the point of the song.

 

[Guartho]

And both were the Ninth Doctor. That rules out either matching with Jack's timeline, since 9 regenerated right after Jack last saw him.

Yes, but Jack should have had no way of knowing that.

True, though my point was more that they weren't the Doctor Jack was looking for, rather than whether he would know.

9 should be the one Jack is looking for since he should be unaware of 9's regeneration into 10.

And yes, we absolutely are over thinking it, but I think it's ok if you do it knowingly and just for fun.

 

[23skidoo]

Oh, dear God. Guys, guys, guys; it's supposed to be funny. No, Jack never met the Cybermen but the line fits and (just about) rhymes! This kind of discussion is precisely what the Comic Book Guy has been taking the pee out of for the last twenty years.

'Tis true. But you have to admit it's made an already funny song funnier, especially when you had in the dig they make at Outpost Gallifrey where exactly this sort of point would probably have resulted in verbal bloodbaths (and for all I know the blood may well be running in the streets of its successor Gallifrey Base as we speak!). Anyone stop to consider this "error" might have been intentional for that very reason?

Alex

 

[Iamnotspock]

'Tis true. But you have to admit it's made an already funny song funnier, especially when you had in the dig they make at Outpost Gallifrey where exactly this sort of point would probably have resulted in verbal bloodbaths (and for all I know the blood may well be running in the streets of its successor Gallifrey Base as we speak!). Anyone stop to consider this "error" might have been intentional for that very reason?

I would love that to be the case.