Which ever ship sucker punches first.
Who would win in a firefight? Nero's Mining ship vs USS Vengeance?
- Thread starter Lek
- Start date
I dunno, the Narada was enhanced by the borg (no matter how lame, thats the story the official prequel comic gives.) I'm assuming the missiles were meant to break up asteroids or plantoids into chunks for easier mining. Also, A good theory I read as to why the Narada took so long to destroy the Kelvin, was that they weren't trying to destroy the Kelvin at all at first. and when the Romulans did start attacking in force, the Kelvin was focusing everything on defense, G. Kirk Immediately ordered an evactuation when Capt. Robau was killed. The Kelvin was simply shooting the Majority of The Naradas Missiles out of the Sky, but was still overwhelmed within a few minutes. Plus the Narada survived being Rammed, and being at the Center of a Blackhole for a good 2 minutes before she finally succumbed. I always wondered why James Kirk even bothered to offer assistance to the Narada at the end, what if Nero had accepted?
Are you quite sure ? Took quite a while to destroy the Kelvin. In fact, it failed to do so.
Careful, now. It was enhanced by the Romulans using reverse-engineered Borg tech. That's not lame.
Unfortunately, it's pretty much impossible for the Narada to have been enhanced in any way. She was a mining rig until the destruction of Romulus, as far as we know - and she was immediately thrown back to the 23rd century after the destruction, there being no time for any sort of a dock visit. So, why would she carry enhancements prior to the destruction of Romulus?
But yes, she did have shields. Which failed to stop Kirk and Spock from beaming aboard, and failed to stop the Jellyfish from destroying the drill (they were said to have gone down around the time the Jellyfish impacted on the mining rig and released the red matter). Which is pretty logical when we consider that those were civilian shields...
Timo Saloniemi
But yes, she did have shields. Which failed to stop Kirk and Spock from beaming aboard, and failed to stop the Jellyfish from destroying the drill (they were said to have gone down around the time the Jellyfish impacted on the mining rig and released the red matter). Which is pretty logical when we consider that those were civilian shields...
Timo Saloniemi
Don't confuse snappy flashback editing (more akin to "Previously on..." recaps on multipart episodes) with real time. Romulus' destruction could have occurred a day before Spock was in range to deploy his Red Matter. He then could have been running scans ans tests for several more hours prior to interception by Nero.
And remember, when Kirk and Spock beamed to Narada, it was from the orbit of Titan to the orbit of Earth - surely using Scotty's transwarp beaming formula. If it can teleport someone from Earth to Kronos and from a (relatively) stationary start to a ship at warp, I doubt energy shields would be much of a hinderence.
And remember, when Kirk and Spock beamed to Narada, it was from the orbit of Titan to the orbit of Earth - surely using Scotty's transwarp beaming formula. If it can teleport someone from Earth to Kronos and from a (relatively) stationary start to a ship at warp, I doubt energy shields would be much of a hinderence.
Narada was built for blowing the shit out of giant asteroids.
The Narada. It was fitted with reverse engineered Borg tech according to Star Trek Countdown. The Vengeance had size and more phasers and torpedoes but they are still not as advanced as the Borg. The Nerada wiped out a whole fleet of starships at Vulcan and 47 Klingon battle cruisers.
It may have been the size of a galaxy class ship with more weapons but that's all it had going for it.
*I'm going by the re-computed size of the Enterprise at about 366m and not J.J.'s oversized figures.
It may have been the size of a galaxy class ship with more weapons but that's all it had going for it.
*I'm going by the re-computed size of the Enterprise at about 366m and not J.J.'s oversized figures.
If Spock in his "fast" ship was a day away from Romulus when the planet blew, then Nero in his lumbering mining rig would probably have been weeks away - either from Romulus or then from a dockyard that could have given him a refit, take your pick.
And even giving Nero an extra day would not be a realistic way to give his ship advanced technology. Unless the Romulans injected Borg nanoprobes into her, and got results only gradually... But the Narada never visibly changed from the moment of her emergence to the moment of her destruction, either internally or externally.
Quite, and I'm just adding the inability to stop futuro-beaming to the list of inabilities that already includes the inability to stop 24th century small craft weapons and the inability to stop rammings. The inability to protect against the Jellyfish guns is the main reason I think this mining rig did not have military-standard shields - although it could be argued that the drill, a known jammer of transporters and communications gear, also weakened shields.
Timo Saloniemi
If you watch the fight in Into Darkness, Vengeance hits Enterprise many times in warp and above Lunar; later on it starts up again. With all the hits, Enterprise still wasn't hulled and dead -- disabled, yes, but if there wasn't a gravity well nearby, it wouldn't have mattered (plus she was able to be repaired).
Contrast that to how easy Narada killed the fleet over Vulcan, and how one hit from Narada was about as much as Enterprise could take according to Sulu. Narada fired two at Enterprise too in the first salvo, it's just that one missed. We can probably assume that two were fired at each of the vessels over Vulcan to begin with -- Narada also fired two to begin with at Kelvin (which caused considerable damage).
Vengeance could probably shoot down a certain amount of incoming missiles, though said missiles do contain a number of submunitions -- if they release them early (sacrificing power for less chance of interception), then Vengeance couldn't shoot them all down.
Narada is insanely durable. Kelvin supposedly warped into it right at the last moment (writer/producer stated that). I'm sure the fleet over Vulcan and the 47 Klingon Warbirds got off some shots at her too. Vengeance is also durable, of course, though I'm sure nowhere near Narada (plus, you just have to look at the size disparity).
Narada put out 26 or so missiles maximum, which were fairly easy to shoot down by a second ship with intent to do so. Now, if they're all coming in and releasing submunitions at a single target..., well, that's different. Kelvin shot down a few, and she also took a few (probably 4 maximum -- 2 to begin with, then one confirmed when it starts up again, plus possibly one more that fractures. Narada was shooting at the shuttles and Kelvin here). Kelvin didn't seem to do much to Narada itself with weapons fire, and she was shooting a ton of photons at it. Enterprise was shooting up its tendrils whilst it was being eaten by a black hole, which did do damage, though the black hole eating away a good portion of the ship probably took its defenses down.
Vengeance has three rapid firing and relatively powerful cannons (one above the navigational deflector and two on either side); you see them firing when at warp. They still couldn't kill Enterprise though, even with many hits. It also has at least one, most likely two, weapon drones that fire what appear to be standard photons. Plus the large swivel mounted photon launcher.
Narada's missiles seem to be the most powerful weapon shot for shot here, with the weakness of being interceptable.
Vengeance seems to have powerful weapons, though are they leaps and bounds over that of Enterprise, Kelvin, the Vulcan fleet, and 47 Klingon Warbirds? They'd have to be closer to the latter than Narada.
So, you have Vengeance shooting down some missiles and getting hit by some. Is Vengeance so much more durable than the ships and fleets mentioned above? I'd say no (more durable and larger, of course, ship to ship, but I doubt it's closer to Narada than Enterprise). Vengeance hits Narada too, though based on the damage done to Enterprise (with the intent to kill it), probably not all that much damage done to Narada.
Vengeance dies.
Narada then just moves on like the one zillion ton gorilla that it is, making screaming noises as it goes.
The only real chance Vengeance has is the warp photons with targeting via the weapons drones from outside of Narada's weapons range, but we don't know if it can do that. Though they aren't all that powerful weapons, rather the stealth and warp capabilities are their key points, though we could say they didn't have a full payload for obvious reasons.
Contrast that to how easy Narada killed the fleet over Vulcan, and how one hit from Narada was about as much as Enterprise could take according to Sulu. Narada fired two at Enterprise too in the first salvo, it's just that one missed. We can probably assume that two were fired at each of the vessels over Vulcan to begin with -- Narada also fired two to begin with at Kelvin (which caused considerable damage).
Vengeance could probably shoot down a certain amount of incoming missiles, though said missiles do contain a number of submunitions -- if they release them early (sacrificing power for less chance of interception), then Vengeance couldn't shoot them all down.
Narada is insanely durable. Kelvin supposedly warped into it right at the last moment (writer/producer stated that). I'm sure the fleet over Vulcan and the 47 Klingon Warbirds got off some shots at her too. Vengeance is also durable, of course, though I'm sure nowhere near Narada (plus, you just have to look at the size disparity).
Narada put out 26 or so missiles maximum, which were fairly easy to shoot down by a second ship with intent to do so. Now, if they're all coming in and releasing submunitions at a single target..., well, that's different. Kelvin shot down a few, and she also took a few (probably 4 maximum -- 2 to begin with, then one confirmed when it starts up again, plus possibly one more that fractures. Narada was shooting at the shuttles and Kelvin here). Kelvin didn't seem to do much to Narada itself with weapons fire, and she was shooting a ton of photons at it. Enterprise was shooting up its tendrils whilst it was being eaten by a black hole, which did do damage, though the black hole eating away a good portion of the ship probably took its defenses down.
Vengeance has three rapid firing and relatively powerful cannons (one above the navigational deflector and two on either side); you see them firing when at warp. They still couldn't kill Enterprise though, even with many hits. It also has at least one, most likely two, weapon drones that fire what appear to be standard photons. Plus the large swivel mounted photon launcher.
Narada's missiles seem to be the most powerful weapon shot for shot here, with the weakness of being interceptable.
Vengeance seems to have powerful weapons, though are they leaps and bounds over that of Enterprise, Kelvin, the Vulcan fleet, and 47 Klingon Warbirds? They'd have to be closer to the latter than Narada.
So, you have Vengeance shooting down some missiles and getting hit by some. Is Vengeance so much more durable than the ships and fleets mentioned above? I'd say no (more durable and larger, of course, ship to ship, but I doubt it's closer to Narada than Enterprise). Vengeance hits Narada too, though based on the damage done to Enterprise (with the intent to kill it), probably not all that much damage done to Narada.
Vengeance dies.
Narada then just moves on like the one zillion ton gorilla that it is, making screaming noises as it goes.
The only real chance Vengeance has is the warp photons with targeting via the weapons drones from outside of Narada's weapons range, but we don't know if it can do that. Though they aren't all that powerful weapons, rather the stealth and warp capabilities are their key points, though we could say they didn't have a full payload for obvious reasons.
No disrespect intended at you but Countdown is full of shit.
On the 3 disc bluray release of ST09. The special features gives the abilities of the Narada and Enterprise. According to the special features the Narada was upgraded at the secret Romulan base Vault. However it does not have disruptors, a perfect cloak or the ability to fire while cloaked like it does in Countdown. The Naradas only weapons are those missiles. It appears to have 27 torpedo bays. As seen when Nero scream "fire everything". The Narada is equipped with transwarp drive. The reverse engineered Borg tech only helps run ship functions and repair the ship. The are no fucking Borg tentacles hanging around that Nero can control to stab people.
With those missiles being capable of being shot down by the Kelvin's and enterprise phasers. The tactical capabilities of Nero's ship aren't that impressive. If the Vengeance can shoot down all of Naradas missiles with phasers and unload with torpedos it has a good chance to take the space octopus down. It took 72 torpedoes exploding inside the Vengeance to take her down and even the Khan was able to pilot the ship via computer on a collision course with Starfleet HQ.
Which is a reference to Countdown. In the comics, the Narada made it to The Vault because they knew it was where the Romulans kept their most secret weapons.
Among them was the Borg Squidling, that latched to the Narada and grew into what we see in the film.
^ Not denying all of Countdown. However if you read the rest of my post with regards go the Narada having disruptors, a cloak, the ability to fire while cloak and the living tentacles inside the ship. None of that is in the movie. Also Spock makes no reference to Geordi La Forge helping construct the Jellyfish in the movie or any assistance from the Ent-E crew under Data or Ambassador Picard.
Star destroyer shaped like the enterprise wins over HR Geiger ripoff design every time
"J.J.'s oversized figures" are what's actually in the movie. Take a look at the "starship size argument" thread. You couldn't fit the Enterprise's bridge and atrium behind it at anything less than 725m. The shuttlebay and engineering sections are obviously the same. And Vengeance is twice as big as that. 1450m.
That's a mass of contradictions, though. Two came nowhere close to destroying the Kelvin. A couple of dozen still allowed the Kelvin crew to restore apparently full weapons capacity, twice - first during the initial firefight, then during the lull when Robau was led to slaughter. So how could two have been any threat to the Enterprise? How could a broadside of 27 have been any threat to a fleet of nine ships, let alone capable of tearing them in two? Especially when it's later shown that whenever the missiles aren't actually coming right toward you, they can be shot down?
It rather sounds that the Enterprise could have weathered further missile hits just fine - Pike certainly thought so, ordering all weapons to readiness while calmly listening to the damage report pouring in. But Nero may have had some ace in the sleeve (say, special red matter warheads or something) that was his original secret for dealing with the cadet fleet and possibly the Klingon fleet...
...It's just weird that he didn't use that secret weapon for his first anti-Enterprise shot already. Ayel was simply told to get rid of the extraneous Starfleet ship, not to waste time toying with her. Why fire a lesser weapon?
Unless Nero's way of dealing with the fleet was to drop red matter into the middle, a maneuver that wouldn't work quite as well against a single starship, or would perhaps be overkill for just one ship?
Which probably would turn a lopsided carnage into a prolonged lopsided carnage when the Vengeance (or any other combat starship for that matter) nibbled her to death...
The starship would always have the option to retire to a safe distance, it seems.
Timo Saloniemi
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