Maybe you didn't hear Spock when he said the star was threatening the galaxy ?
Who would win in a firefight? Nero's Mining ship vs USS Vengeance?
- Thread starter Lek
- Start date
Maybe you didn't hear Spock when he said the star was threatening the galaxy ?
Having finally got the film on blu ray, it's easier to gather how effective the firepower is from the Vengeance.
When Khan took control of the Vengeance and targeted the enterprise, the enterprise's shields were put back up. Only after being struck by the volley of phasers shots and that probe, a crew member announced shields down to 6%
Whilst the Narada's projectives pack a huge punch, its firing rate falls short compared to the Vengeance's ability to deploy multiple shots very quickly making it just as deadly.
Admiral Marcus promised to 'make it quick' when he intended to finish off the Enterprise when the torpedo turrets were deployed, this indicates the potential effectiveness of that particular weapon compared to the relatively measured way how it picked the Enterprise apart with its main weapons.
When Khan took control of the Vengeance and targeted the enterprise, the enterprise's shields were put back up. Only after being struck by the volley of phasers shots and that probe, a crew member announced shields down to 6%
Whilst the Narada's projectives pack a huge punch, its firing rate falls short compared to the Vengeance's ability to deploy multiple shots very quickly making it just as deadly.
Admiral Marcus promised to 'make it quick' when he intended to finish off the Enterprise when the torpedo turrets were deployed, this indicates the potential effectiveness of that particular weapon compared to the relatively measured way how it picked the Enterprise apart with its main weapons.
Just a side note/stray observation, but when the Enterprise battles both ships, her shields are extremely reduced and the Big E suffers catastrophic damage as others have pointed out. I take this to mean that the JJmovies follow the same logic as TOS, in that once the shields are down, the ship is as vulnerable as toilet paper (cut to commercial, we're about to face certain doom!). It wasn't until TWOK and then subsequent Trek shows in which the hero ships could be shown to take a beating even after the shields go down.
So if there's anything the JJprise takes from her Prime counterpart, at the very least it's how the shields function.
So if there's anything the JJprise takes from her Prime counterpart, at the very least it's how the shields function.
Clearly it would be a tie, as the ships are both equally fictional.
I wouldn't say it Started with TWOK, given that the Enterprise is all but completely crippled after just one good salvo to an unshielded engineering section.
Had Enterprise been more operable, I think that Enterprise would have a fair chance, more from the standpoint of Kirk being unconventional and using things other than just brute force to beat the Venegance.
All Marcus was doing with the Vengeance was firing weapons, really. But I don't think he would be expecting an opponent to use more than weapons to counterattack.
^ ^ Indeed.
Marcus was a military man, and didn't expect anything else from Kirk....
Marcus was a military man, and didn't expect anything else from Kirk....
I don't believe the Enterprise would be able to defeat the Vengeance at all. That's what makes the Vengeance so badass. They would have been destroyed pretty quickly.
As far as the mining ship goes, again I say the Vengeance wins because it's specifically designed following that attack. Also Marcus would likely be more skilled at space combat than Nero.
As far as the mining ship goes, again I say the Vengeance wins because it's specifically designed following that attack. Also Marcus would likely be more skilled at space combat than Nero.
I'm not really sure I get the "what if Enterprise could still fire" concept. She was fully operational, and then Vengeance tapped her on the butt and she curled up and took a beating. Given that Marcus is the highest admiral in SF, he knew Enterprise in great detail. I very much doubt the initial shots by Vengeance were just random pew-pew in universe. Take out the engines, take out the weapons, and then go to work violently dismantling the hull.
Even if the Enterprise had weapons, at that point, with all the damage, i'd venture to guess their wouldn't have been enough power for them to matter. Vengeance just outclassed her. which really makes me curious what Vengeance would have been like against a Klingon Armada, or if the Klingons have their own version of the Vengeance (Sword of Kahless from Klingon Academy in the next Trek, anyone?
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I mean, I would assume Vengeance has a really good shield grid, to say nothing of it's really armored looking hull. We don't know enough. Could conventional phasers even do any damage to that hull plating? I mean, really, how much of a game changer is the Vengeance?
Oh, that is one element I really want to see explored more, too. The idea of a starship with drone launching capability. It's such a "now" inspired notion, and it makes perfect sense. Who needs a fleet when you have a large C&C vessel that can deploy flying phaser and torpedo platforms to do the work of a small task force for you?
Even if the Enterprise had weapons, at that point, with all the damage, i'd venture to guess their wouldn't have been enough power for them to matter. Vengeance just outclassed her. which really makes me curious what Vengeance would have been like against a Klingon Armada, or if the Klingons have their own version of the Vengeance (Sword of Kahless from Klingon Academy in the next Trek, anyone?
)I mean, I would assume Vengeance has a really good shield grid, to say nothing of it's really armored looking hull. We don't know enough. Could conventional phasers even do any damage to that hull plating? I mean, really, how much of a game changer is the Vengeance?
Oh, that is one element I really want to see explored more, too. The idea of a starship with drone launching capability. It's such a "now" inspired notion, and it makes perfect sense. Who needs a fleet when you have a large C&C vessel that can deploy flying phaser and torpedo platforms to do the work of a small task force for you?
The simulated Warbirds in the Maru test are probably reasonable depictions of their capabilities (the same way that Harpoon reasonably simulates USSR warships), i.e., three are too much in all ways for whatever Federation starship was simulated.
They designed a big Klingon ship for Into Darkness, but it was cut fairly early on. Here's the concept art. It looks a little weird!Even if the Enterprise had weapons, at that point, with all the damage, i'd venture to guess their wouldn't have been enough power for them to matter. Vengeance just outclassed her. which really makes me curious what Vengeance would have been like against a Klingon Armada, or if the Klingons have their own version of the Vengeance (Sword of Kahless from Klingon Academy in the next Trek, anyone?
I'm not really sure I get the "what if Enterprise could still fire" concept. She was fully operational, and then Vengeance tapped her on the butt and she curled up and took a beating. Given that Marcus is the highest admiral in SF, he knew Enterprise in great detail. I very much doubt the initial shots by Vengeance were just random pew-pew in universe. Take out the engines, take out the weapons, and then go to work violently dismantling the hull.
Even if the Enterprise had weapons, at that point, with all the damage, i'd venture to guess their wouldn't have been enough power for them to matter. Vengeance just outclassed her. which really makes me curious what Vengeance would have been like against a Klingon Armada, or if the Klingons have their own version of the Vengeance (Sword of Kahless from Klingon Academy in the next Trek, anyone?
I mean, I would assume Vengeance has a really good shield grid, to say nothing of it's really armored looking hull. We don't know enough. Could conventional phasers even do any damage to that hull plating? I mean, really, how much of a game changer is the Vengeance?
Oh, that is one element I really want to see explored more, too. The idea of a starship with drone launching capability. It's such a "now" inspired notion, and it makes perfect sense. Who needs a fleet when you have a large C&C vessel that can deploy flying phaser and torpedo platforms to do the work of a small task force for you?
The Vengeance shields were down for several minutes - had the Enterprise been able to fire during that window, it would be very interesting to see.
Enterprise demonstrated the ability to blow hundreds of meters of hull off the Narada with her phasers and torpedoes, it wouldnt be unreasonable to think she can scratch the Vengeance unshielded.
But I guess the story required the Enterprise and crew to be totally outclassed and powerless, so to have had the Enterprise fire back and damage the Vengeance would have ruined the sense of terror with that ship.
Are you talking about Into Darkness? If so, then that's my point: that Abrams and Co. seem to readopt the TOS philosophy that the ship is really vulnerable once the shields go down (really, in both XI and XII, once the shields are drastically reduced, she's one more attack away from total destruction). Compare that to TWOK, where the ship was still semi-functional in both of the film's ship battles, where her shields were down.
It's interesting to compare them, from a storytelling perspective, that the Enterprise-E could withstand multiple hull breaches in Nemesis, and that Voyager and the NX-01 both had stories (rather, Enterprise had a whole season) which depended on the ships' durability after prolonged stress and battle with pencil-thin shields and reliance on hull strength.
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