Spoilers Who was right? Picard or Riker? (episode 3 spoilers)

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Saul, Mar 3, 2023.

?

What should they have done? Ran or fought?

  1. Picard (we have to make a stand against them)

    12 vote(s)
    28.6%
  2. Riker (we have to escape them)

    30 vote(s)
    71.4%
  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    There was a TNG were the shields were broken, so Picard couldn't use a torpedo without damaging Enterprise as well. The Shrike was so over powered that without shields, was there any gun it could have used without irradiating their crew?
     
  2. Deks

    Deks Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In this season, torpedoes are slow as turtles (they were faster in both Insurrection and Nemesis)... similar to what it was back in 23rd century movies.
    Ships are also ridiculously slow to maneuver (even though we know that in the 24th century, subspace tech is used to lower the ship's inertial mass which makes a really heavy starship or even a space station, excessively light and easy to move with thrusters alone).
    Pic writers are heavily leaning towards this 23rd century handicap because otherwise, evading Vadic's portal technology could be doable.

    Skin tight useless shields too. A lot of the damage seeps through them and onto the hull. Bubble shields more easily absorbed the impact and actually protected the ship better (despite some energy feedback).

    Also, the Shrike isn't that special. The Galaxy class had 260 Photon torpedoes, and its wasn't a warship. It could easily take on the Shrike. The Sovereign class could too.

    The Titan-A seems woefully under-equipped... and it seems to be for drama purposes.
    Ah well... what's done is done... might as well see where this narrative is going.
     
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  3. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Why fire a phaser at the torpedo? Just detonate it.
    When they first went into the Nebula, the titan did fire a full spread, and it did hit. and did NOTHING.. Another full spread would be useless. just run.
     
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  4. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It looks cooler.
     
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  5. Yistaan

    Yistaan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    At this point, I think the better question is who is going to get the most severe punishment in the court martial. None of this, other than reaching Beverly somehow, was Picard's idea. He just went to Riker for help. It was Riker's idea to hijack a ride on the Titan. But when they both took the idea to Shaw, he said no and they accepted it. It was Seven's idea to take the ship to the Ryton system anyway after hearing the argument. And even then the Titan remained in Fed space. Seven taunted Shaw about leaving Picard and Riker to die, but ultimately he made the order to leave Fed space to bail them out.
     
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  6. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    On a dramatic presentation? The hell you say!?
     
  7. Noname Given

    Noname Given Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    IF Picard and Riker hadn't also stolen a shuttle and performed an unauthorized launch, and subsequently lost said shuttle to destruction, you'd be correct. Up to that point, only 7 of 9 was on the hook, so to speak.

    But at this point, both Riker and 7of9 should be court martialed; and Picard stripped of any pension/retirement benefits.
     
  8. RuleofAcuisition17

    RuleofAcuisition17 Commander Red Shirt

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    40 isolytic burst warheads (Specifically banned by Khitemer Accords, used by the Son'a, REMEMBER THEM?)
    88 plasma torpedoes, (As used by the Cardassians and Romulans to great effect.)
    236 photon torpedoes, (nearly as many as the Galaxy Class)
    18 antimatter missiles, (Sending Suns Supernova since 2256)
    20 pulse wave torpedoes, (Potentially deleting systems since the 22nd Century!)

    (Stolen shamelessly from Memory Alpha)

    AND MORE unknown to Fed scanners, including the Portal Weapon.

    So it's a liiiiiiiiiiiiitle more well armed than a Galaxy at 260 and the Soverign at 300.

    Neo Connies don't currently have a nailed down stats sheet I can find anywhere on t'internets right now, but it's only got a crew compliment of 500 in the post-dominion war Starfleet Era. She's got a smaller crew than the soverigns and is likely her footprint overall is smaller too. She's also clearly not designed to the more "warship" feel in an attempt to recapture glory days of a major superpower grown somewhat fat from a good 20+ years of peace.


    "How is the Neo Connie Class? WHAT? To Shreds you say... tut tut tut... HOW? To Shreds you say..."
     
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  9. Deks

    Deks Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2003
    Antimatter missiles are causing suns to go supernova?
    Since when?
    To my knowledge photon torpedoes have antimatter warheads... they ARE in effect antimatter missiles... and they're not supernovae inducing by default.
    Trilithium torpedoes on the other hand can force a Sun to go supernova because Trilithium as a compound is a nuclear inhibitor.
    Also, Trilithium can be infused into Quantum torpedoes (as was done on DS9 to poison Maqui planets)- and can probably be infused into Photons as well).

    So... I don't see the advantage of these at all.

    Plasma torpedoes... eh, they were extremely effective in the 23rd century... not so much in the 24th. In this era, they seemed to have been no better than photon and quantum torpedoes - and UFP shields were able to enact a protective effect (unlike in the 23rd century).

    Isolytic burst weapons... sure, they can tear holes in space... those would be dangerous... but the way they were initially presented in Insurrection was that they COULD tear holes in space... not always. They were unpredictable, hence why they were banned (and again, one would imagine SF would have come up with some sort of viable defense by now - plus, any idiot stupid enough to carry them runs the risk of getting themselves pulled into that subspace tear too if they happen to fire them and lose control).

    Regardless, the Galaxy class had 260 photon torpedoes, and it could probably be outfitted with Quantums as well (especially by this point in time, and a ton of other stuff).
    At the very least, the Galaxy would have been better equipped to go up against the Shriek.

    Plus, as slow those photon torpedoes moved, you could seemingly evade them easily enough... the ones in TNG, Insurrection and Nemesis moved much faster at sublight. And the Galaxy class could fire 6 of them at the same time in a Sierra pattern.

    Fire enough of them at the same time at the Shriek and it will probably/eventually go down - because the Shriek didn't seem like it was capable of firing 6 of them at the same time.

    The Titan-A seems to copy the Constitution class in terms of ineffectiveness when it comes to shields and slow moving torpedoes and overall maneuverability (the galaxy class was far more agile).

    Eh... like I said, 'warship' is a bit of an overstatement.
    It certainly packs more ordenance than the Galaxy class, yes... but in terms of individual fire power, I wouldnt say those are particularly deadly weapons (sans perhaps Isolitic weapons).
    In terms of individual firepower, they are probably on par with modern photon and quantum torpedoes... so the only thing those add to the Shriek are numbers of ordenance... and given the size of that ship, you'd imagine that SF would also be capable of giving its exploratory ships more than enough torpedoes and powerful shields for proper defense should the situation arise).

    You can still be peaceful and not fire first even with a plethora of tactical systems for powerful offense and defense.
    It would only be sensible to start equipping exploratory ships properly and not uner-equipping them.
     
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  10. RuleofAcuisition17

    RuleofAcuisition17 Commander Red Shirt

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    2256.

    As said in the post.

    Specifically the Discovery Episode Such Sweet Sorrow.
     
  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yup. That's the goal. It's a PR projection as well as allowing the crew to rest on the "explorer" part of their job, and leave the nastiness of fighting to "warships."

    You do your thing; we'll do ours.
     
  12. ToddCam

    ToddCam Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I feel like the conflict is forced, but I can chalk it up to two men who have not been active Starfleet officers for a long time and have lost the ability to handle challenge. Picard starts out with "Call me number one" and then goes all "you're emotionally compromised" and probably regrets acceding to Riker's authority. Then Riker feels like a failure and uses Picard's plan also failing as a scapegoat.

    But I can also see his banishing Picard (ignoring the churlish "you've killed us all" line) as an attempt to regain control, realizing maybe that while Picard could have a point, getting nettled about his grief is not appropriate at this time.
     
  13. SimiOne

    SimiOne Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Riker was right at first, but after the warp drive was offline by sabotage, Picard's suggestion was clearly the right one.
     
  14. Uhura's Song

    Uhura's Song Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Initially, Picard was dead wrong, get out.

    Subsequently, Riker is dead wrong. Running was off the table (at least short term), you accepted Picard's recommendation. You are the Captain. Passing the buck was Bush league. Awful.
     
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  15. Uhura's Song

    Uhura's Song Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I am mot sure when they figured that out.
     
  16. MrShinzoff

    MrShinzoff Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I watched a review on Youtube about episode 3 from a channel called Nater Tot. They made a great point about how Riker's disrespectful manner towards Picard actually replicates how he behaved in the future portion of All Good Things.

    I had a real problem with their argument but Riker was consistent with the AGT portrayal.
     
  17. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

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    Nope. I'm just stating it just to state it. I think they're going to show how Seven eventually earns her fourth pip.

    I'm not sure if Shaw dies anymore, or if they just kick him upstairs to Admiral.
     
  18. Brainsucker

    Brainsucker Captain Captain

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    Well, I don't think that Neo Connie is less powerful than any other Starfleet standard Cruiser. Yes, they may inferior to Galaxy and Sovereign. But both Galaxy and Sovereign were the biggest and the most powerful in the fleet at their own time. Neo Connie wouldn't be less advanced nor less powerful then as Intrepid class (Voyager). It also won't less capable then previously state of the art Stargazer A from Picard season 2.
     
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  19. Phily B

    Phily B Commodore Commodore

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    I get the impression that its a science ship and has limited armaments. It was likely never meant to head outside of Federation space nor get into this type of combat and their armament wouldn't have even been impressive 20 years ago.
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Neither Riker nor Shaw seem like a egg heads who ant to spend eternity measure gas output from stellar nurseries.

    Maybe it makes sense to put a soldier in charge of a ships worth of eggheads, but it doesn't really?