Spoilers Who was right? Picard or Riker? (episode 3 spoilers)

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Saul, Mar 3, 2023.


What should they have done? Ran or fought?

  1. Picard (we have to make a stand against them)

    12 vote(s)
  2. Riker (we have to escape them)

    30 vote(s)
  1. Ogrebear

    Ogrebear Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Oct 27, 2017
    As soon as they saw the Shrike was facing them Riker should have called off the attack as the plan to attack from behind was dead, and gone for escape/retreat back into the nebula. Riker was right about keeping Titan safe, however He gave the order to fire, not Picard- it’s his responsibility.
    MrShinzoff and SpocksOddSocks like this.
  2. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    May 10, 2005
    Confederation of Earth
    I'm guessing that Beverly's "Trust NO ONE" warning, is a reason why the Titan can't simply call for help?
  3. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Jul 24, 2011
    The nebula must be blocking comms. the captain ordered a distress call to be sent once they were free of the Nebula.

    this poll needs a third option, both were wrong.
    Mr. Laser Beam and fireproof78 like this.
  4. Jaster

    Jaster Captain Captain

    Jul 5, 2002
    United Kingdom
    Kobayashi Maru.
    Danja likes this.
  5. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Jul 24, 2011
    Next week’s episode is called No-Win Scenario
    Jaster likes this.
  6. Brainsucker

    Brainsucker Captain Captain

    Dec 3, 2007
    South East Asia
    Actually Picard's tactical maneuver is good. They can use the trail to bait the Shrike, and then attack them from behind. It is a sound strategy, until that bait was already used by Riker to run away, but failed. The saboteur cripple the warp drive with explosion, to give the Shrike a hint about the whereabout of Titan.

    And then, this is Picard's fault. He's mentally compromised, to be blindly force his idea to Riker, while the opportunity is already passed away. He should aware that the explosion already give the enemy an idea about their where-about. And Riker's prior decision already give the Shrike a bit of time to realized that they're being cheated with a false trail. And then make a tactical assessment about what the Titan will do after that. Thus they can plan a trap to counter-attack Picard's tactical maneuver.

    So basically, Picard's tactical maneuver is a good strategy, except that it's already lose the opportunity to work as intended. But still to be forced by Picard to Riker.

    When they realized that they lose the opportunity to escape, Riker should hide inside the Nebula while seeking the saboteur first. At that time, they can send a Shuttle to leave the Nebula, to contact the Starfleet. Hell, they're only several hours from the Earth's space station. They should be able to contact Deep Space 11, if they can send a shuttle out from the Nebula.

    Just remember, that the travel time between the Earth's space to the nebula is only take several hours. We can find it by seeing that they start to move at the time of Captain Shaw sleeps, and arrived when captain Shaw wake up from his sleep.
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2023
    Ogrebear likes this.
  7. Ianburns252

    Ianburns252 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Apr 2, 2021
    First contact says hello - he does have previous for making poor decisions when emotionally compromised
  8. thribs

    thribs Vice Admiral Admiral

    Oct 23, 2017
    Always Picard. Riker is never right
  9. Yistaan

    Yistaan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jul 27, 2018
    They should've picked a third option. Maybe ram into the Shrike forcing the Shrike to portal the Titan away from it, giving the Titan a head start at escape if the refresh on the portal weapon isn't fast enough.

    The other option was finding the changeling and holding him hostage in a transporter buffer or something.
  10. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Jul 24, 2011
    They didn't have time.
  11. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

    May 7, 2011
    Aug 10, 1999
    Who's right? Seven is right. In the absence of Data, someone has to fill that spot, so she'll come up with something that's outside the box, also channeling Kirk's "I changed the conditions of the test"... proving why (plugging it here!) Seven should be the next Captain in the next series. :angel:

    Someone has to come up with something, there are still six episodes after the fourth one. ;)
    SpocksOddSocks and Anduinel like this.
  12. mattman8907

    mattman8907 Commodore Commodore

    Apr 25, 2013
    and yet he tells riker that its time for him to call picard "number One".
  13. Phily B

    Phily B Commodore Commodore

    Jul 26, 2001
    United Kingdom
    I also think there was an option C - you've seen the shrike has turned and is facing you. Do a fly past and go back into hiding again.
    Ogrebear likes this.
  14. Sci

    Sci Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Mar 2, 2002
    Montgomery County, State of Maryland
    Nothing about Jean-Luc's tactics is good. The Shrike is entirely too powerful for the Titan to go up against it. Jean-Luc has had the sense to hide his ship when going up against a vastly tactically superior foe before; that he inexplicably wants to fight now is a huge departure from his prior response to near-identical tactical situations.

    No. Will is the commanding officer, and the Titan only attacked the Shrike on Will's command. He's in command, and the choice was his. This is Will's fault and it's pretty shitty of him to try to blame his first officer for his choices.

    I considered that, but I don't think all forms of "emotionally compromised" result in equally irrational behavior. Even when facing off against the Borg with PTSD, he didn't immediately become outright delusional about the odds of defeating the enemy until the better part of a day had passed and he'd had multiple triggering events in a tactical situation he had never encountered before (Borg assimilating his ship from the inside-out).

    That he would immediately leap to an irrational belief that the Titan could militarily defeat the Shrike (when he has been in similar situations without that kind of hubris) in response to a situation that is emotionally stressful but hardly traumatic on the scale of facing the Borg again, stretches credibility in an otherwise-excellent episode.
    Ogrebear likes this.
  15. Sketcher

    Sketcher Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Aug 31, 2003
    Sure, being Number One to Riker was fine until Riker started making decisions Picard wouldn't. They're both former starship captains now. Riker has long since stopped being anyone's XO, and it might be hard for Picard to accept on some level that they're, if anything now, equals. Throw on top of that an incredibly stressful and life threatening situation, I'm surprised the two weren't shouting at each other more.
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Apr 15, 2000
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Once they took care of the leak, hiding was a refreshed option.

    I don't understand the battle I saw.

    Back in the day, ships moving at 1/4 light speed were able to strike hubcap sized targets 40 thousand miles away.

    Meanwhile, what I saw last week were two ships a hundred meters apart throttling it up to 15 kph, firing at each other and missing.

    Of Course, their sensors where ractched and their drive systems were frakked, and their power steering was probably on the fritz.

    I refuse to believe they had to shoot the torpedo, when the tech is probably there to set a fuse rather than wait till the torpedo impacts a shield or Hull. .. Especially after the destruction of Caretakers array required that feature 30 years ago.
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2023
  17. Admiral Archer

    Admiral Archer Captain Captain

    Dec 28, 2009
    Okay, I swear to you I have only seen this first three episodes, but if you don't trust me, I'll still post Spoiler Tags in case I just so happen to be right. I only have a theory, but it makes sense based on a clip from the trailer and the details of the incident.

    Picard is right, because
    Riker is a Changeling.
    Guy Gardener likes this.
  18. starburst

    starburst Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Mar 8, 2007
    They were both right and both wrong but at different points.

    Riker was right that head to head the Titan was outmatched by the Shrike so playing cat and mouse made the most sense until they were able to escape.

    Once they were unable to escape Picard's strategy makes the most sense as the longer they are in the nebula the more damage is occuring to the ship and the less likely they are to remain hidden while they repair the Warp Drive.

    Both plans fail because of the portal tech and the sabotage - Riker can't escape and evade due to the leak and then the bomb - Picard's head on approach didn't work because by the time Warp was out of the question the Shrike had found the Titan wasn't at the end of the breadcrumb trail and about turned.

    Take the portal tech out of the equation and either plan could have worked depending on what the Titan Changeling's alternate plan B was - he may have taken out Warp drive earlier or gone for the weapons himself to delay a hit and run attach on the Shrike.
    Brainsucker likes this.
  19. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Nov 3, 2009
    Melbourne, Australia
    They should have continued hiding by going in deeper towards the gravity well given Vadic also seemed to be avoiding it. Picard was an idiot for suggesting an agressive strategy and Riker was an idiot for going along with it despite his reservations. They should have used the time to track down the changeling and analyse any data on portal weapon from sensors to see if they could find a weakness. Maybe they could have detonated the warp core from a shuttle to make it look like Titan had been destroyed by the gravity well.
    Ogrebear likes this.
  20. RuleofAcuisition17

    RuleofAcuisition17 Commander Red Shirt

    Jan 29, 2023
    Is anyone whatsoever suggesting she shouldn't be?