Who of you changed your minds?
- Thread starter miniglik
- Start date
I'm really trying to understand what about this movie was "Star Warsian"...
I felt the "Big 3" played out in the full spirit of TOS, and that it worked smashingly.
No, not perfectly as a bullet-proof storyline, but perfectly as a vehicle to "reboot" the franchise in an entertaining way.
I suppose the ice planet monsters and Scotty's sidekick could be construed as evoking Star Wars in a way, but only if you really pick that nit.
Kirk1980, I'm with you though--all films had plot holes and assorted blemishes. Let us hope the next movie is the best of all time.... and still as accessible to fan and general public alike.
I felt the "Big 3" played out in the full spirit of TOS, and that it worked smashingly.
No, not perfectly as a bullet-proof storyline, but perfectly as a vehicle to "reboot" the franchise in an entertaining way.
I suppose the ice planet monsters and Scotty's sidekick could be construed as evoking Star Wars in a way, but only if you really pick that nit.
Kirk1980, I'm with you though--all films had plot holes and assorted blemishes. Let us hope the next movie is the best of all time.... and still as accessible to fan and general public alike.
I never did call you a noob or anything else like that. Not to be mean but maybe it's just your headache making those inferences. All I said was that there's parallels between the new movie and Star Wars.
Kirk's story reads as Luke's story fairly easily. I'm not drawing any conclusions about the merit of such an approach.
And you're very incredibly passionate about the new movie and that's fine, really! Plenty of room for that.
Kirk's story reads as Luke's story fairly easily. I'm not drawing any conclusions about the merit of such an approach.
And you're very incredibly passionate about the new movie and that's fine, really! Plenty of room for that.
To wit:
Kirk as Luke. Young farmboy left in care of people that aren't his parents. He meets an older man (Pike as Obi-Wan here) who tells him of his destiny.
Uhura acts as Leia in the awkward love triangle of Kirk-Spock-Uhura.
The planet killers in each are destroyed by an end run straight into the center with a hero making a narrow escape. There's more stuff but well, Abrams is a Star Wars fanboy and I'm sure a lot of that was intentional in his work with Orci and Kurtzman. It's not necessarily a bad thing but to me, at least, the parallels are there.
Kirk as Luke. Young farmboy left in care of people that aren't his parents. He meets an older man (Pike as Obi-Wan here) who tells him of his destiny.
Uhura acts as Leia in the awkward love triangle of Kirk-Spock-Uhura.
The planet killers in each are destroyed by an end run straight into the center with a hero making a narrow escape. There's more stuff but well, Abrams is a Star Wars fanboy and I'm sure a lot of that was intentional in his work with Orci and Kurtzman. It's not necessarily a bad thing but to me, at least, the parallels are there.
You can tell how much of a Star Wars fan I am, can't you...?
However, the relationships forming between the major players is all Star Trek, wouldn't you agree?
Plus, Star Wars doesn't have a corner on narrow escapes, love triangles and apprentice/mentor/master relationships, does it?
I mean those concepts have been around since time immemorial...
It had a slight SW vibe, it's inevitable. All Trek that's been created since the dawn of Star Wars is going to feel it's influence, just as Star Wars itself has always had a little Trek inspiration. Both versions of BSG speak for themselves, and Firefly, Farscape, Stargate and Babylon 5, don't have a clue where to send the card on father's day. Good speculative fiction is where you find it.
I think you're letting his statement overly influence your analysis of the film. The parallels you see are not especially convincing as "proof" that this movie is heavily influenced by Star Wars. Rather, they are elements that each (Trek and Wars) have in common with a lot of prior examples of various genres (coming of age, westerns, action-adventure and so on). There are perhaps a few visual cues that are reminiscent, but that owes much to the general influence Star Wars had on sci-fi after 1977 and the fact that ILM did the bulk of the effects for the new movie.
I dunno, the woman I saw the movie with leaned over and mentioned Joseph Campbell during Kirk's birth. A lurch toward Campbell is almost by definition a lurch toward Lucas--in SF, at least.
You've made my point for me. The elements that reminded her of Joseph Campbell long pre-date Star Wars (and Star Trek) and each "universe" has borrowed liberally from what Campbell describes at length. I would argue that Star Wars has been a visual influence on sci-fi since 1977 (and that includes on Trek) but the commonalities in themes in Trek and Wars are a shared borrowing of older material, not necessarily one borrowing from the other.
Well, to play devil's advocate and push a stronger point. When you have a director who knows little of the source material but a lot of another and there are many similarities between that other and the new show the director has made, what do you think had more of an effect?
Remove the concepts of Trek and Wars before answering. Think of it as a logic problem.
Remove the concepts of Trek and Wars before answering. Think of it as a logic problem.
I walked out of the theater thinking, "I've never loved and hated a movie at the same time before. Until now. I love this movie. A lot. And I hate this movie. A lot."
Since the first viewing...the timeline&canon befuddlement has faded and I'm just glad the Trek franchise has risen again. NuTrek won't be the same as TOS....but that's a good thing.
They've remade it so they can start fresh -- so PLEASE....start fresh and don't give into the lazy temptation to do-over Khan, VGer, Mudd, or anything else from TOS.
Give our old favorites a way to boldly go again...
Since the first viewing...the timeline&canon befuddlement has faded and I'm just glad the Trek franchise has risen again. NuTrek won't be the same as TOS....but that's a good thing.
They've remade it so they can start fresh -- so PLEASE....start fresh and don't give into the lazy temptation to do-over Khan, VGer, Mudd, or anything else from TOS.
Give our old favorites a way to boldly go again...
except he was being pretty heavily influenced by his writers both of whom were trek fans.
and yeah i take issue with how something that has a quest theme is immediately star wars.
heck farm boy raised by others who is more then he seems goes back to some of the versions of arthur and in more modern time the searchers.
uh i guess you forgot this earlier post..
yes you didnt call her directly a noob but you certainly inferred that those of us who like this movie are..
which as things go along is starting to look pretty comical to me. considering a lot of us know more about tos then many of the people making the assertion.
oh yeah ice planet..
spock had his own interesting experiences with an ice planet.
:P
and yeah i take issue with how something that has a quest theme is immediately star wars.
heck farm boy raised by others who is more then he seems goes back to some of the versions of arthur and in more modern time the searchers.
uh i guess you forgot this earlier post..
yes you didnt call her directly a noob but you certainly inferred that those of us who like this movie are..
which as things go along is starting to look pretty comical to me. considering a lot of us know more about tos then many of the people making the assertion.
oh yeah ice planet..
spock had his own interesting experiences with an ice planet.
:P
I made no such inference. I don't even think 'noob' could be applied in this context. Like I've said to others, what you infer from an analysis beyond what's presented (at least in what I've written here) is entirely on your own.
Spock on the ice planet predated Hoth by...a considerable margin.
And how did I forget my earlier post? It's puzzling why some people are getting upset by making the connections.
Would you also find it insulting if I pointed out the parallels between Star Wars and 'Hidden Fortress'?
Parallels existing and whether or not you enjoy them are entirely different subjects.
There were many parallels between 'Drag Me To Hell' and some of Raimi's earlier 'Evil Dead' films. I enjoyed DMTH despite and at times because of the parallels. But they do exist.
Same here, just in this case I wasn't as thrilled.
Spock on the ice planet predated Hoth by...a considerable margin.
And how did I forget my earlier post? It's puzzling why some people are getting upset by making the connections.
Would you also find it insulting if I pointed out the parallels between Star Wars and 'Hidden Fortress'?
Parallels existing and whether or not you enjoy them are entirely different subjects.
There were many parallels between 'Drag Me To Hell' and some of Raimi's earlier 'Evil Dead' films. I enjoyed DMTH despite and at times because of the parallels. But they do exist.
Same here, just in this case I wasn't as thrilled.
If you want to rag on it for copying Star Wars, think about how Star Wars copied from The Hidden Fortress, The Wizard of Oz (there's another farm kid dreaming of bigger things, not to mention being disguised as Winkies/Stormtroopers to rescue Dorothy/Leia, the similar character archetypes, etc...), Flash Gordon, said King Arthur legend, various other mythological tales, westerns, etc... And yes, Star Wars borrowed from Star Trek, too.
As has been said, there is no such thing as an original story. It's not a bad thing. Star Trek was derived from plenty of sources as well.
Star Trek and Star Wars have always fed off of each other and many things before them.
As has been said, there is no such thing as an original story. It's not a bad thing. Star Trek was derived from plenty of sources as well.
Star Trek and Star Wars have always fed off of each other and many things before them.
Exactly. These identifiable and universal themes are more common in films than tv shows so maybe it stands out in the making of a great Star Trek movie because it has been less a theme in the episodic stories. Maybe some of the other Trek films could have benefited from touching on some age old themes and symbols.
As to how it "felt".. well I have been a huge Star Wars fan for years and have seen the original trilogy probably 100 times and the prequels many times as well. This movie felt like TOS. TOS, my dearly beloved.. maybe it felt like Star Wars to some because it was such a good story unlike some of the other more awkward Trek films.
Similar threads
