yeah except Riker didn’t really have a right to stand up to Jellico. I mean the way how they were shouting they were both in the wrong, but Riker was doubting his commanding officer‘s orders. And Jellico is right. I like picard but I don’t think the Federation to sacrifice a couple of systems for him. Which is why Jellico did not admit that picard was working for them. Which is basically letting picard hang out to dry. But the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few or the one. I’m sure picard would agree to that.
Who is the better captain Picard or Jellico
- Thread starter Gabriel
- Start date
We're a long way from the "risk is our business" speech.
If that's the fact, Jellico still acted rude and created more trouble than necessary.
As a matter of fact, the Enterprise had been in combat before and they had an expreienced crew who surely could have handled the situation. What the crew needed least of all was a new Captain who started to mess up a lot of things and insulted the experienced officers which he would need to face the Carsassians.
I wonder, was the Enterprise really that unprepared for battle as it seemed to be because Jellico started barking orders.
One might imagine that a ship that has faced serious opponents in battle, like the Borg, would be ready to fight at anytime.
Would Picard really run his ship that makes possibly dangerous first contacts and explores new areas so poorly that when someone else takes command, everything needs to be changed?
If the Enterprise wouldn't be ready for serious situations, what might that say about Picard? And Riker and all the others.
All that shift rotation and making the ship ready for battle thing was nonsense.
Cardies must have made huge leaps in weapon tech because it was such a big deal to start upgrading everything. In season 4 Enterprise fired once and a Cardassian ship was pretty much done. 'Chain of Command' took place only about 2 years later.
One might imagine that a ship that has faced serious opponents in battle, like the Borg, would be ready to fight at anytime.
Would Picard really run his ship that makes possibly dangerous first contacts and explores new areas so poorly that when someone else takes command, everything needs to be changed?
If the Enterprise wouldn't be ready for serious situations, what might that say about Picard? And Riker and all the others.
All that shift rotation and making the ship ready for battle thing was nonsense.
Cardies must have made huge leaps in weapon tech because it was such a big deal to start upgrading everything. In season 4 Enterprise fired once and a Cardassian ship was pretty much done. 'Chain of Command' took place only about 2 years later.
While manners are necessary just about everywhere. If you can’t take insult and rudeness during crunch time, then you don’t belong wearing any uniform. Or defending a country. Remember this was crunch time. I’m sure jellico would be nicer during normal operation and with an XO the second guess him. I mean towards the end he did make a small connection with Geordi and was friendly with Riker in the beginning. Also I don’t remember jelico saying any insults and I recently watched the episode
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Yeah genius, but I think 3 to 1 would’ve been an interesting battle between for a galaxy. In the Cardassians usually deployed their ships in two or three. Also there is the chance that the Cartys may be deploying more and more ships just take on the enterprise. It would mean a lot for them to take down the flag ship. And I the enterprise would have a hard time against 6 cardies just for them selfs. Well least I would I would do if I were them, 6 against one. And it doesn’t matter if it was “nonsense” it was still orders and orders are expected to be followed With out a lot of complaining.
By the way last time I checked the ship did not face the Borg very well. They did better than other ships but they have to put the Borg to sleep just to beat them. And the second time they had to hide in a star. And remember if they were so weak starfleet would send the flagship. They would just send some ordinary ship. I mean Its not worth it take away the flagship from exploring just for talking with a powerless annoying race.
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Comparing, battle wise, the Borg to the Cardassians is frankly insulting to the Borg. They operate on a far different level than virtually all other races. Hell, they've assimilated Cardassians and have some of their knowledge.
Honestly, just even SURVIVING an encounter with the Borg means your ship and crew are something special. The Enterprise, despite it being essentially a hotel in space, is a fighter that does a lot of heavy lifting, even while still being a devoted ship of exploration.
Honestly, just even SURVIVING an encounter with the Borg means your ship and crew are something special. The Enterprise, despite it being essentially a hotel in space, is a fighter that does a lot of heavy lifting, even while still being a devoted ship of exploration.
I'm.. genius.. look at me, genius.
The Borg was just an example.
There aren't that many ships and/or cultures that do well when the Borg arrive.
You'd think then, that in all their complaining about having to make the changes, someone would actually say "This is unnecessary" "We're already oriented for this "War" you're talking about." "None of these changes will affect any noticeable difference" etc... but nobody says any of that. Nobody refutes the man's assessment, that the ship requires reorienting from a science & exploration bearing, to a wartime bearing, that might be different in some way, not even the former captain, when the subject is brought up contentiously, in private.
Privately, Geordi even admits that he has no problem doing the work, just that the time constraints are taxing. I know that if someone is telling me to make changes that don't need to be changed, or might in fact be problematic, even if they are a superior officer, I'll most likely tell them, on the spot, & tell them every detail of why they're wasting everyone's time, albeit it... tactfully lol
When we look at Picard's wartime Enterprise in Yesterday's Enterprise, does it not look completely different to the one we routinely see? Different postings on the ship, different energy usage, & overall bearing? It may be an alternate timeline, but it's pretty much the same ship, with mostly the same history, leading up to where they had to go to war
Jellico has reassigned portions of nonessential science people, removed science stations from the bridge, shored up security, asked for engine specifications so he can likely tax them far longer than just an occasional surprise battle that Picard might find himself in with the ship. I have no problem imagining that the ship he is gearing up to have is very similar to the Yesterday's Enterprise one, just from the things he's asking for.
Nechayev is quite clear, to Riker's face that it's the later.
Coming into a experienced crew and completely disregarding how they do things and refusing to listen to any concerns about violating protocol to change things to how you want could be regarded as insulting.
Certainly, Jellico's approach is not one that Chris Pike would approve of...
And a third of the engineering staff. Which doesn't make sense.
Which mostly does, and nobody argues with the former.
PICARD: The crew is accustomed to following my orders.
LILY: They're probably accustomed to your orders making sense.
And the fact that he didn't even try in several cases exposes his unprofessionalness.
Not to you, maybe, but you don't run a starship. My point was that no one ever says that it's wrong for him to have done so, even privately, only that it has made things harder on them.
When you think about it, an engineering officer is someone who likely has more skill at being swapped to security than a science officer, given that all the red & yellow shirts train like LaForge & Worf did, at all of the above. So there may have been a need for security & ops officer posts to fill but the qualified people are in yellow shirts, not green
I've always assumed that the engineers were being used to free up security personnel from armory duty, rather than guard shifts. It's also possible (Spock and Jadzia suggest this) that some blueshirts have enough knowledge of engineering to do damage control and basic maintence at least.
I just have a deep dislike of new people who come in with "revolutionary ideas of how to 'improve things'" who never bother to explain how it's supposed to improve things and are often wrong.
I just have a deep dislike of new people who come in with "revolutionary ideas of how to 'improve things'" who never bother to explain how it's supposed to improve things and are often wrong.
It's both in that:
- If it's a PURELY diplomatic/first contact situation: Picard.
- EVERYTHING ELSE: Jellico.
Picard is a diplomat first foremost and only. He'll sacrifice ship damage and crew because he ALWAYS thinks he can talk his way out of anything; and has to get a big bloody nose to even consider returning fire, and then he'll start at 50% power. I'd not want to serve as a regular crewman under Picard as he tosses them aside (usually 18 at a time.
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- If it's a PURELY diplomatic/first contact situation: Picard.
- EVERYTHING ELSE: Jellico.
Picard is a diplomat first foremost and only. He'll sacrifice ship damage and crew because he ALWAYS thinks he can talk his way out of anything; and has to get a big bloody nose to even consider returning fire, and then he'll start at 50% power. I'd not want to serve as a regular crewman under Picard as he tosses them aside (usually 18 at a time.
)Well Spock and jadzia aren’t you average blue shirt. It’s possible most blue shirts don’t know much out side of science. Also jellico never said it was revolutionary ideas. To. Him it was standard for a war time footing.
Then don't embark on a career in which you may be expected to follow orders without asking a lot of questions barring exceptional circumstances.
After reading some of the comments that talk about how imcompetent Picard seems to be, why do you even pay any attention to this program?
Imagine Picard in command of the same mission that Jellico had. Would he have done changes? Probably not because he knows the ship and its capabilities. Jellico on the other hand didn't have experience with Galaxy class ships and yet he wanted to make everything his way. Can we be absolutely sure he was actually improving the ship? Picard had run the ship for over 5 years, Jellico had been around for 5 hours.
Imagine Picard in command of the same mission that Jellico had. Would he have done changes? Probably not because he knows the ship and its capabilities. Jellico on the other hand didn't have experience with Galaxy class ships and yet he wanted to make everything his way. Can we be absolutely sure he was actually improving the ship? Picard had run the ship for over 5 years, Jellico had been around for 5 hours.
So, Picard is not a very good captain?
That Picard-Lily situation was unique, it was an attempt to make TNG different, to make Picard angry and break out of character.
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