Who is going to win this election in November?

[Locutus of Bored]

1. I agree with you.
2. According to my link below, there are approximately 720,000 illegal immigrants who cross the border each year. However, about half of them of them are caught and sent back.
3. I agree with you.
4. See #2.
5. How do we know your sources are completely accurate?

https://www.reference.com/governmen...-5cb90159b4355204?qo=contentSimilarQuestions#

"Net zero or less" doesn't mean no one is coming in. It means an even number or fewer are coming in than are going out. So quoting an amount of illegals still crossing the border doesn't contradict anything I said. Short of taking oppressive measures turning us into a police state (which you can arguably make the case for us being already given the alarming number of our citizens and non-citizen residents we incarcerate and shoot and seize property from) and fortress America, which is not a place I want to live in, I don't see what else Obama or any other president could have done differently.

People are still going to come in. People are still going to come in if (and that's a yuuge "if") Trump ever builds his ridiculous boondoggle of a Wall. People have been overcoming fixed emplacements since like, forever. Ask the Maginot Line how well that worked out. Hell, ask the current border fencing how well it works out since they just tunnel under it or run through the border crossing stations. Not to mention:

Guess we better start building a sea wall too. Winter is coming!

Also, most of the "illegals" are people who came here legally and for whatever reason had lapsed visas or other issues. Do we shut down the visa program? That's going to be a big bummer for Mr. "I Want to Win So Hard Against China" when we start preventing people who come here for advanced schooling and jobs and help us with science and technological innovation. Or are those the "good ones" who are okay, and the ones who harvest our food, clean our homes, build our buildings, and watch our kids are not okay?

How do you know my sources are accurate? Their methodology can be studied and replicated by anyone, they're backed up by numerous other reputable news sources, and they're supported by the independent non-partisan government agencies who track such things, as opposed to stuff that "feels right" to people who think their country is being stolen from them or people who are willing to exploit those fears for political gain.

 

[indycar]

"Net zero or less" doesn't mean no one is coming in. It means an even number or fewer are coming in than are going out. So quoting an amount of illegals still crossing the border doesn't contradict anything I said. Short of taking oppressive measures turning us into a police state (which you can arguably make the case for us being already given the alarming number of our citizens and non-citizen residents we incarcerate and shoot and seize property from) and fortress America, which is not a place I want to live in, I don't see what else Obama or any other president could have done differently.

People are still going to come in. People are still going to come in if (and that's a yuuge "if") Trump ever builds his ridiculous boondoggle of a Wall. People have been overcoming fixed emplacements since like, forever. Ask the Maginot Line how well that worked out. Hell, ask the current border fencing how well it works out since they just tunnel under it or run through the border crossing stations. Not to mention:

Guess we better start building a sea wall too. Winter is coming!

Also, most of the "illegals" are people who came here legally and for whatever reason had lapsed visas or other issues. Do we shut down the visa program? That's going to be a big bummer for Mr. "I Want to Win So Hard Against China" when we start preventing people who come here for advanced schooling and jobs and help us with science and technological innovation. Or are those the "good ones" who are okay, and the ones who harvest our food, clean our homes, build our buildings, and watch our kids not okay?

How do you know my sources are accurate? Their methodology can be studied and replicated by anyone, they're backed up by numerous other reputable news sources, and they're supported by the independent non-partisan government agencies who track such things, as opposed to stuff that "feels right" to people who think their country is being stolen from them or people who are willing to exploit those fears for political gain.

Okay, I didn't know net zero didn't mean zero. It does seem that the amount listed from reference.com (who seems to be unbiased and accurate based on research I did on it) is a decrease from previous years. As for the wall, I can see people getting finding away around it (a person can get around anything if they want something enough and put their mind to it) and I don't see Mexico paying for it. I've heard people say America will just stop allowing money to be sent to Mexico. I think that that is illegal.

So I guess that means I'm in agreement with you.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

So I guess that means I'm in agreement with you.

 

[fonzob1]

Well I wonder how that might work ...... A world without borders. It's an interesting concept

If not for borders we wouldn't know which people we're supposed to hate based on where their ancestors decided to stay put at before we arbitrarily decided to put lines in dirt.

So, you think borders are the root of people's hatred for one another? People don't need borders to hate each other. A world without borders would be a world without security. I could foresee some serious issues with that.

 

[Awesome Possum]

So, you think borders are the root of people's hatred for one another? People hate each other for many different reasons. A world without borders would be a world without security. I could foresee some serious issues with that.

All the reasons we hate each other is stupid. Race, religion, borders, favorite sports team. It's all idiotic since we're all the same species sharing the same planet. We could be doing so many better things with our time and energy.

 

[cooleddie74]

To be fair, though, if you like the Cleveland Browns you are worse than Runningback Hitler.

 

[MacLeod]

He called some illegal immigrants rapists.

I believe he said something along the lines of "I assume some are good people".

How does one define some? One person might thing it means a few another a lot. Had he said I assume he majority (or most) are good people their would be no abiguity.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

All the reasons we hate each other is stupid. Race, religion, borders, favorite sports team. It's all idiotic since we're all the same species sharing the same planet. We could be doing so many better things with our time and energy.

I think we could all use some Lennon right now:

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On another note, the Democrats seem to be taking some steps in the right direction.

http://time.com/4573592/bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-democrats/

Sanders won a position as chair of outreach at a leadership meeting on Capitol Hill on Wednesday morning, a role that recognizes his increased visibility after a populist election season. Warren, formerly a strategic policy adviser, was named vice chair of the conference.

As expected, New York Sen. Chuck Schumer will serve as minority leader, a role that requires a skilled and canny legislative strategist.

“We needed a much stronger, sharper, bolder economic message,” Schumer said, looking back at the election, “and we needed to let the American people know we understand what they all believe: that the system isn’t working for them, and we’re going to change it.”

 

[STR]

Yesterday (I think) the topic of China came up. I made the assertion that, generally, it is not worth it to outsource to China anymore. Their labor costs are no longer 1/10th that of America. It's closer to 1/2. However, once you add up all the costs to ship things overseas and the hassle of managing a supply chain across the ocean, it's no less expensive than staying put.

The sum total of everything it costs to import something is called "Total Landed Cost", literally the cost to bring something onto land. The following charts were uncovered with a simple search of " landed cost china" and similar terms. Source for each is given. Anyone curious can find them easily.

Some of the things that go into landed cost. The chart is from some import/export outfit and should be considered generic. The actual ratios of costs vary depending on what you're selling and how quickly you need it. Labor, raw materials and transport are lumped into "material costs" here.

Minneapolis Federal Reserve (only up to 2013)

A Pro-Mexico Trade Group through 2015. Not a reliable source on it own, but the numbers for China match Fed/IMF and my own experience. I'm doubtful about the numbers for Mexico though.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

I spoke about the election with my psychologist.

For me, the country has become smaller, with me not being able to consider leaving the safety of California. I view many Republicans as my enemy - that I could not ever feel safe in their presence. For days after the election, I was in a state of dread and anxiety. I did not march in the protests and I did not refuse to accept Trump as my president. I respect the office, even though I know that he will never consider me as an American. When the Republicans speak of representing Americans, I know I am not included in their definition of what an American is.

 

[STR]

I spoke about the election with my psychologist.

For me, the country has become smaller, with me not being able to consider leaving the safety of California. I view many Republicans as my enemy - that I could not ever feel safe in their presence. For days after the election, I was in a state of dread and anxiety. I did not march in the protests and I did not refuse to accept Trump as my president. I respect the office, even though I know that he will never consider me as an American. When the Republicans speak of representing Americans, I know I am not included in their definition of what an American is.

I get where you're coming from (kinda, I have the luxury of not needing to fear these people directly). This election taught us nothing we couldn't surmise already about the candidates. It did reveal beyond all doubt that "one people indivisible" is a crock of s***. There is no single America. Hell, there isn't even a majority anymore. Everyone is fragmented into their little tribal groups, and some of those tribes are hateful as can be.

However, they are not half of America. They aren't even a plurality. They needed the EC to pull this one off, and there will be 2 million more of us by 2020. If not a single one of them changes their mind, this *still* wouldn't happen again. Demographics isn't destiny, but the tribes that won this time have an uphill fight for the foreseeable future.

So long as nobody nominates another Clinton, at least.

 

[Red Shirt]

All the reasons we hate each other is stupid. Race, religion, borders, favorite sports team. It's all idiotic since we're all the same species sharing the same planet. We could be doing so many better things with our time and energy.

I couldn't agree more. I find it odd that compassion, kindness, and empathy are generally sneered at qualities, yet without those very qualities we individually and as a species lose the core of our inner humanity.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I couldn't agree more. I find it odd that compassion, kindness, and empathy are generally sneered at qualities, yet without those very qualities we individually and as a species lose the core of our inner humanity.

Actually talk to some of the people who do that hating and such and you would get the impression they think some people are not the same species as they are..... Or not even human. At least that's what I have learned in life.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

So long as nobody nominates another Clinton, at least.

Not even Chelsea?

 

[Red Shirt]

Actually talk to some of the people who do that hating and such and you would get the impression they think some people are not the same species as they are..... Or not even human. At least that's what I have learned in life.

IMO, fanatical dehumanization of other human beings is how cults and ology's and isms justify crusades, jihads, holocausts, and purges, degenerating into being "morally acceptable" to inflict horrors on other people. >smh<

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

IMO, fanatical dehumanization of other human beings is how cults and ology's and isms justify crusades, jihads, holocausts, and purges, degenerating into being "morally acceptable" to inflict horrors on other people. >smh<

That is correct

 

[WarpFactorZ]

Not even Chelsea?

No Chelsea Clinton, no Michelle Obama, no Kennedy's, etc.... If the US wanted a bloodline-based monarchy, maybe they should have thought twice in 1776 about revolution.

My wish for 2020 is that a new face/name is on the ticket. Someone young, a relative "Washington outsider", with a keen vision of hope for the future. Kinda like that guy who ran in 2008.

 

[BillJ]

No Chelsea Clinton, no Michelle Obama, no Kennedy's, etc.... If the US wanted a bloodline-based monarchy, maybe they should have thought twice in 1776 about revolution.

I don't have a problem with either Chelsea Clinton or Michelle Obama running down the road, though I don't think 2020 is the right time for the former. But why should people not run for office because other family members have ran and succeeded?

 

[WarpFactorZ]

I don't have a problem with either Chelsea Clinton or Michelle Obama running down the road, though I don't think 2020 is the right time for the former. But why should people not run for office because other family members have ran and succeeded?

Because I don't think many of the "name recognition" candidates would be viable. Look at what happened with Michelle Obama recently. She gave a great speech about tolerance, and suddenly everyone thinks she's presidential material. Why??? Because she gave a good speech? Don't get me wrong, I respect her and think she's awesome, but one shouldn't run based solely on that premise. Note also Michelle Obama wants nothing to do with Washington, a minor point. I'm not convinced Chelsea Clinton has an interest in politics, either.

I may be in the minority, but I feel that the President should be selected on their own merits, not a name brand. Bush I succeeded by Bush II. Bush III tried his hand (but failed). Clinton I then later Clinton II. Obama I has run, now people want Obama II. Clinton III, anyone? In the history of US politics, there have been two "dynasties" (Roosevelt and Bush). The Kennedy's might have been as well, if not for fate. But these days, it seems like an expectation

At the end of the day, that's what happened in this election... and look where it got us.

 

[Rincewiend]

Name recognition...
Sounds like a movie...

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