Likely the far cheaper and more humane option.
Make them a citizen, that'll teach others the folly of crossing our border!
Who is going to win this election in November?
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Likely the far cheaper and more humane option.
Make them a citizen, that'll teach others the folly of crossing our border!
This thread takes up a lot of time, so I'm sorry if I'm not addressing everything. The quote system not picking up previous quotes makes some of this argument problematic.
I think the biggest reason it looks like the two sides are disagreeing on immigration is that one side appears to think borders are valuable and the other does not. I am very open to correction.
If we can agree that not everyone should be allowed into the United States then we can argue who should and how should they.
There is at LEAST a perception of an immigration problem. I have been told no there isn't really a problem, just as many people are going out as coming in. But then I'm asked "Why do we care?" Well, if we shouldn't care then what does it matter who is coming and going.
I think we should have borders. I think we should be able to decide as a citizenry who comes and who goes.
You make the argument that 11 million is too many people to deport. (It is.) But my impression is that if it was a manageable number to deport that you would be against that as well. So why bother with the problem of 11 million.
If someone (for example) wanted to dismantle the US military (or say, close all of our NATO bases) my argument would not be "That's too hard to do." It would be "I think that's a terrible idea."
How do you feel about corporations (hotels, what have you) hiring undocumented workers at these lower wages. Even Sanders was against this.
I think the biggest reason it looks like the two sides are disagreeing on immigration is that one side appears to think borders are valuable and the other does not. I am very open to correction.
If we can agree that not everyone should be allowed into the United States then we can argue who should and how should they.
There is at LEAST a perception of an immigration problem. I have been told no there isn't really a problem, just as many people are going out as coming in. But then I'm asked "Why do we care?" Well, if we shouldn't care then what does it matter who is coming and going.
I think we should have borders. I think we should be able to decide as a citizenry who comes and who goes.
Lucky me, I've taken the citizenship practice test several times over the last decade. Those electoral college questions got way easier after 2000.Anyone pulled over speeding, should have to take the US Citizenship test, and if they fail it get immediately deported. I'd bet there'd be a lot of white citizens getting kicked out of the country.
Under what circumstances do you feel anyone should be deported?
You make the argument that 11 million is too many people to deport. (It is.) But my impression is that if it was a manageable number to deport that you would be against that as well. So why bother with the problem of 11 million.
If someone (for example) wanted to dismantle the US military (or say, close all of our NATO bases) my argument would not be "That's too hard to do." It would be "I think that's a terrible idea."
The only way that it would have an impact on American pocketbooks (and it would) would be if we were replacing workers working at less than the minimum wage with workers working AT the minimum wage. If this is not OK, then why do we have a minimum wage?
How do you feel about corporations (hotels, what have you) hiring undocumented workers at these lower wages. Even Sanders was against this.
If it makes you feel big to imply I'm not smart enough to pass a history test, it shows your character.
If you're wondering, I got a 20/20.
Thing is, these workers in the hotel and hospitality industry are working at legal wages. They just do it better. Ask most white people what they think of doing that backbreaking labor for $7.25 an hour and most will tell you they'd rather work the welfare system.
There is a thread running throughout White America of privilege, and if one doesn't get that privilege, it is a brown person's fault.
Yes, you have said to me:
"I'm done. You are a...oh right, this is the misc. But how do you measure influence? You...right...the misc."
"Just go away. You are clearly a.... D*mn, the misc."
I take both of those as insults.
Congrats. You'd get to stay. But, someone needs to be picking produce for two bucks an hour with no benefits so I can continue to buy banana's for forty-nine cents a pound at the grocery store.
As is happening now: if they are found guilty of serious crimes over and above their legal status.
It's not a question of difficulty, but manageability and humanity. As I have more or less danced around, it would not be that hard to eliminate, say, 95% of all undocumented immigrants in the US... if you were willing to undertake a door-to-door campaign demanding to see people's papers, and summarily locking up (or even executing) those who resist.
But we don't do that because it would go against everything our society is founded on.
That's why I've been asking these questions. I want to know what it is we're not doing about illegal immigration that we should be, and so far I've not seen any real answers, but rather a lot of ignorance about what we're actually doing about it already, and how bad of a problem it is in the first place.
I think we're at a stalemate on this issue. People who are for illegal immigration will not change my opinion and I will not change those people's views. I have gave my thoughts and I have defended them. As a result, I feel that I have no more to say on this issue.
Honestly, I do think that an illegal immigrant already in this country should have to pay a fine or serve a (very brief) prison sentence (in order to make up for their lack of waiting for citizenship) and then have some way to become a citizen. That being said, I also think that more needs to be done to prevent illegal immigration and it does seem to be going down. I hope that under his presidency, Donald Trump will continue to make this figure lower.
Honestly, I do think that an illegal immigrant already in this country should have to pay a fine or serve a (very brief) prison sentence (in order to make up for their lack of waiting for citizenship) and then have some way to become a citizen. That being said, I also think that more needs to be done to prevent illegal immigration and it does seem to be going down. I hope that under his presidency, Donald Trump will continue to make this figure lower.
Me, too. But then I used to teach citizenship prep classes, so I'd better get them all right!
I don't think you really understand what was being argued if this is what you got out of it.
Huh, funny since that's more or less what I suggested earlier, but you didn't seem to think it was good enough.
Thanks for admitting it's basically a non-problem.
You have more faith in his competence than I do.
White people are the only race that one can still make sweeping generalities about.
For there to be a negative economic impact then you'd have to be talking about replacing people working illegally for less with people working legally for more. That's not the example you gave above.
Well duh. Obviously, as could any American citizen. Last I checked you weren't arguing that we should ban tourism, so I am not sure what your point is. My comment was in response to you saying ISIS could send people here, they didn't send him here, he already lived here.
When you have figured out exactly what you are arguing, if indeed that's even possible, get back to me.
1. Well what are you for on this issue?
2. In that case, I meant that the illegal immigrant should be deported if they just did a serious crime. I admit, I really didn't make this very clear.
3. I wouldn't say that it's a non-problem, yet.
4. Apparently I do.
What do you mean? Right wing media makes sweeping generalizations about minorities all the time. The President-Elect called Mexicans rapists.
Two different business types (agriculture vs. hotel/hospitality) have different ways accounting for labor. It is far easier for the former to slide money under the table vs. the latter. You could make it a requirement that farmers pay labor electronically, like most hotel/hospitality chains do. But, freedom. They'd complain about the government interfering in their business.
I was arguing against illegal immigration and its possible connection to terrorism, meaning that it could be anybody, and I used the Orlando shooting as an example. So yes, I know exactly what I'm arguing.
He called some illegal immigrants rapists.
Sure. I'm more likely to get hit by a bus today than be a victim of a terrorist attack. Sometimes you have to gauge the likelyhood of something happening. Not run off half-cocked because it could happen.
I never said it did, I said it shows that anybody can perform a terrorist attack.
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