I think Harriman was the bigger wuss. What do you all think?
Who is a bigger wuss, Harriman or Estaban?
- Thread starter Josh_Lyman
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Definitely Estaban. Harriman seemed like he had some potential that might be realized by the time he grew up.
Esteban was a penis with ears (and a riding crop.)
Harriman's "wussness" can be chalked up to being nervous because of Kirk & company on board. At least that's what I'm going to believe. You would think that a chicken shit officer wouldn't be able to land "the ultimate gig" of Captain of a brand-spanking-new Enterprise.
Harriman's "wussness" can be chalked up to being nervous because of Kirk & company on board. At least that's what I'm going to believe. You would think that a chicken shit officer wouldn't be able to land "the ultimate gig" of Captain of a brand-spanking-new Enterprise.
IIRC, Harriman had a moment of indecision about going to save the ship...but then he went ahead and did it. Esteban would have protested outright, "Wait a minute, we don't know what we're dealing with here. And regulations specifically state that no ship without a tractor beam will attempt rescue operations under conditions that the captain may deem to be too dangerous."
OTOH, I can't see Esteban having left Spacedock without a tractor beam in the first place, he had the rulebook so far up his ass.
Both characters suffer from the same essential problem. TOS Movie Cliche #2: All other Starfleet officers are straw men who exist only to make the Enterprise crew look more heroic.
OTOH, I can't see Esteban having left Spacedock without a tractor beam in the first place, he had the rulebook so far up his ass.
Both characters suffer from the same essential problem. TOS Movie Cliche #2: All other Starfleet officers are straw men who exist only to make the Enterprise crew look more heroic.
Oh yeah...got them mixed up. There's no doubt Esteban "do it by the book" was the bigger wuss. He may as well had "flaming homo" written on his forehead.
I'm sure he would have been afraid to take a dump without Starfleet's approval.
"Inform Starfleet I ate a bean burrito and it went straight through me. Request instructions. U.S.S. Grissom, J.T. Estaban, commanding."
I'll go with Harriman because he immediatly stoke me as a wuss.
I suppose there was a reason why Esteban was merely given command of a Oberth-class starship. Some captains have it and others don't. I guess people like Esteban are also often commanding facilities like the Spacedock around Earth... positions where they usually don't have to make tough decisions.
Harriman on the other hand... I don't know, most first (and second) officers seem more competent than him. Even Jadzia, Tuvok, or Trip would have made better captains. And this was a state-of-the-art Excelsior-class starship we're talking about. Of course there's the mitigating circumstance that his ship wasn't fully operational. But this is still no excuse for his indecisive and hesitating leadership.
(Then again, why was the Enterprise-B the only ship in range? I know it's a common clichè in Star Trek that Earth is poorly protected, but they really had only a single starship in the solar system? And this starship was barely operational?)
Harriman on the other hand... I don't know, most first (and second) officers seem more competent than him. Even Jadzia, Tuvok, or Trip would have made better captains. And this was a state-of-the-art Excelsior-class starship we're talking about. Of course there's the mitigating circumstance that his ship wasn't fully operational. But this is still no excuse for his indecisive and hesitating leadership.
(Then again, why was the Enterprise-B the only ship in range? I know it's a common clichè in Star Trek that Earth is poorly protected, but they really had only a single starship in the solar system? And this starship was barely operational?)
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More likely Estaban, but as a commander of a Science vessel, he was less prepared for such circumstances. I believe that Harriman was just less expeienced and maybe "awed" by too many "living legends" and wanted not to screw up in front of them?
I think Alan Ruck is taller than Philip Allen.
It's a photo finish! Both Esteban and Harriman had wussy qualities. I do agree that too often, the other starship captains we see in the movies pale in comparison to our heroes to make them look better. Notable exception is Sulu in command of Excelsior in TUC.
About the only other starship captain who seemed to have some balls in the TOS movies was Styles, despite the fact he was a pompous martinet. He was similar to the character James B. Sikking was best known for portraying at the time, Lt. Hunter from Hill Street Blues.
Red Ranger
About the only other starship captain who seemed to have some balls in the TOS movies was Styles, despite the fact he was a pompous martinet. He was similar to the character James B. Sikking was best known for portraying at the time, Lt. Hunter from Hill Street Blues.
Red Ranger
Only because he was one of our beloved hero crew first. Probably the only Starfleet officer of command grade or higher in the TOS movies who had a substantial role, hadn't served on the Enterprise, and wasn't portrayed as an idiot and/or asshole was Terrell in TWOK. His ship got taken over and he met a horrible end, but he was a sympathetic character who had the mental fortitude and heroism to resist Khan's commands and take his own life rather than kill Kirk.
We didn't get to see how competent he would have been if he'd gotten his ship out of orbit...but he definitely fell into the "asshole" category, which just makes him a straw man of a different flavor.
Harriman: Idiot
Styles: Asshole
Esteban: Idiot and Asshole
True about Sulu. However, Terrell was also portrayed as kind of weak, notwithstanding refusing Khan's command to kill Kirk. And sure, we didn't get to see Styles in action, but would Starfleet necessarily give command of their most advanced new ship to an incompetent? Hardly likely. -- RR
Which brings us back to Harriman....
Why do people always bash Esteban? So what if he was by the book. If he had lived and not contacted Starfleet he probably would've been slammed for beaming potentially dangerous microbes on board.
In fairness, Enterprise-B wasn't ready to be taken out of drydock. If the ship had all its capabilities, I think Harriman wouldn't have looked so much like a dork. He still took the ship out even with its handicaps, so you could say that was brave. This is another example of the ineffectual starship captain as straw man. And casting Ruck, a.k.a. Cameron from Ferris Buehler's Day Off, kind of underlines that.
Esteban, on the other hand, was an active duy starship captain who looked like he had some experience, despite being a regulation-quoting twit. His command to "Stand by for evasive," when there's a Klingon bird of prey coming down his ass struck me as incompetent. We always hear captains say, merely, "Evasive action!" So what the hell was that?
So on further reflection, I say Esteban wins this one, by a nose.
RR
Because he couldn't take a dump without contacting Star Fleet for instructions.
Overlooking the fact that Star Fleet made a WTF decision by sending one measly science ship to the Genesis planet, it was even worse that they sent a captain that has to call home to mommy over the simplest decisions.
Weak? Not really. More like a bit weary.
He and Chekov have been dragging their asses around the Alpha Quadrant for an unknown amount of time trying to find a dead planetary body for Carol Marcus. The fact that they're so eager to beam down to Ceti Alpha "VI" and see if it's something they can transplant suggests they've been at this a looooong time and would like to see their involvement with Project Genesis (or at least this phase of it) start to wind down.
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