Who is a bigger wuss, Harriman or Estaban?
- Thread starter Josh_Lyman
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You beat me to it (even with the canonicity issue). I suppose hindsight has something to do with Harriman-love, but that sort of says something, that even with a few minutes in Generations, there was a bit of character potential there that other writers saw and decided to explore. On the other hand, I sincerely doubt there are any Esteban: Year One stories.
One of the fundamental aspects of any Star Trek story is that the Captain (or whoever else is in charge) has to Make A Decision. Estaban dithered around without making a decision until he didn't need to worry any longer -- because he, his ship, and his crew went BOOM!
Estaban, definitely.
Estaban, definitely.
Esteban was the bigger wuss, no question or contest. Harriman was in a bad situation, but he actually tried. Like it's been said above, the man practically contacted Starfleet Command for permission to do anything.
Probably he was sent to Genesis just because it would mean severe lag time in between his calls to SC...
Probably he was sent to Genesis just because it would mean severe lag time in between his calls to SC...
"Stand by for evasive", yeh what the hell WAS that?
"sir they're gonna shoot at us and were about to die"
"yeh just hang on a sec there....stand by....we'll move out of the way in a sec"
Idiot, how about "evasive maneuvers" or "get us out of here"? no?
"sir they're gonna shoot at us and were about to die"
"yeh just hang on a sec there....stand by....we'll move out of the way in a sec"
Idiot, how about "evasive maneuvers" or "get us out of here"? no?
^That's like Spaceballs. "Prepare to..." "What are you preparing? You're always preparing! Just go!" "Just go."
That's why I've always given Harriman a break. He did volunteer to do a task that very would could (and would have) killed him. In addition, as others have mentioned, in the novels he's portrayed as a quite the commanding officer.
Why would re-rigging the deflector be considered a hazardous job? Kirk did it from the safety of an indoors room, until the Nexus lashed out and gave the room a view. The same thing could have happened to just about any part of the ship close to the outer hull, certainly including the bridge. It was no more dangerous down there than elsewhere.
That Harriman considered deserting his bridge actually speaks ill of his sense of priorities. Or would, were the circumstances a bit more usual. As matters stand, the ship must have been seriously short-staffed, and it is quite possible that there would have been so few people knowledgeable in the secrets of the deflector that Harriman would have had to get his hands dirty.
Indeed, it's rather implausible that Kirk would have had the required skills. Scotty would have been the more logical choice for a non-crew person who is up to date on modern Starfleet hardware, but he was of course unavailable. Probably we are supposed to think that rigging the deflector controls for an overload shot is a trivial task, something the lowest-ranking of Harriman's bridge personnel could have done blindfolded - in which case it does make sense for Kirk to be capable of it, but less sense for him to be the person tasked with it, and zero sense for Harriman himself to volunteer.
Of course, once Kirk himself insisted, it did make sense to let him go: not only would his ego be stroked, but Harriman's people could keep doing their own jobs. But Harriman's original idea of going himself must be viewed as an abortive attempt at desertion. A psychologically natural attempt, as Harriman must have been feeling pretty useless there - but condemnable anyway. Good thing he snapped out of it so fast.
Timo Saloniemi
That Harriman considered deserting his bridge actually speaks ill of his sense of priorities. Or would, were the circumstances a bit more usual. As matters stand, the ship must have been seriously short-staffed, and it is quite possible that there would have been so few people knowledgeable in the secrets of the deflector that Harriman would have had to get his hands dirty.
Indeed, it's rather implausible that Kirk would have had the required skills. Scotty would have been the more logical choice for a non-crew person who is up to date on modern Starfleet hardware, but he was of course unavailable. Probably we are supposed to think that rigging the deflector controls for an overload shot is a trivial task, something the lowest-ranking of Harriman's bridge personnel could have done blindfolded - in which case it does make sense for Kirk to be capable of it, but less sense for him to be the person tasked with it, and zero sense for Harriman himself to volunteer.
Of course, once Kirk himself insisted, it did make sense to let him go: not only would his ego be stroked, but Harriman's people could keep doing their own jobs. But Harriman's original idea of going himself must be viewed as an abortive attempt at desertion. A psychologically natural attempt, as Harriman must have been feeling pretty useless there - but condemnable anyway. Good thing he snapped out of it so fast.
Timo Saloniemi
Rÿcher
Fleet Captain
they knew what would be going on down there/ The E-B had already suffered dome damage so going into the bowels of the ship in such cramped quarters with all those girders and catwalks and discharging vents is bound to be a little hazardous. It just so happened that the ship was struck by an errant plasma streamer in the exact place where Kirk was.
I'll go with this explanation. Also, as we saw in Court Martial, there are certain dangerous stations on starships in the middle of a storm, like the ion pod. So the danger in re-rigging the deflector dish probably approached the danger level of the ion pod station. -- RR
Harriman was the bigger wuss, hands down. But to be fair, he was cetainly inexperienced...I would hope he grew out of it...
Definitely Esteban. At least Harriman had some presence when all hell broke loose. "All engines full reverse!"?, good choice. "Stand by for evasive!"?, oops, you just got your crew and your nice pink bridge vaporized by Doc Brown! P.S. Kruge is the best klingon ever.
I didn't see Harriman as a wuss, I think he was just nervous because he was the commanding officer of the new USS Enterprise on its opening cruise, which was just supposed to be a publicity stunt, and he had the press and his boyhood idol watching over his shoulder. He had to have shown some semblance of competence and backbone in order to get the job as captain of the Enterprise.
Not to mention that "being a wuss" was probably the right thing for a competent captain to do, in those circumstances. The E-B was in fact not in a position to offer much help, and any other ship would have been a better choice. But how to explain that to the press? You're bound to look bad (and make your employer look bad, too), even if there isn't a superhero standing right next to you to make matters even worse...
Remember that Captain Pike did essentially the same thing when we first met the character. "Screw those castaways, we've got enough problems of our own!"... Not particularly heroic, but still probably the correct thing to do, as the odds of there actually being survivors on Talos were just about zero.
Timo Saloniemi
Remember that Captain Pike did essentially the same thing when we first met the character. "Screw those castaways, we've got enough problems of our own!"... Not particularly heroic, but still probably the correct thing to do, as the odds of there actually being survivors on Talos were just about zero.
Timo Saloniemi
Which makes absolutely no sense - how do you get the rank of captain and be "inexperienced"?
It was just very poor writing.
Esteban. He has the edge because he was at least more experienced.
After posting in the Oberth thread in Trek Tech, it occurred to me that Star Trek III missed an opportunity with the character of Captain Esteban. Real navies don't require the rank of captain for every ship's skipper. Smaller vessels are often commanded by Lieutenant Commanders or Commanders. And Grissom is exactly that sort of ship.
If Esteban had been a young Lieutenant Commander with his first command, he would have been a much more sympathetic character. Instead of looking like an incompetent twit, he would have just looked inexperienced, and his mistakes and indecision would be more understandable and forgiveable.
Marian
If Esteban had been a young Lieutenant Commander with his first command, he would have been a much more sympathetic character. Instead of looking like an incompetent twit, he would have just looked inexperienced, and his mistakes and indecision would be more understandable and forgiveable.
Marian
Well fandom is generally a bit harsh on both...
Harriman had the press on his bridge, a group of "living legends" and no equipment to perfomr a rescue. He still manages to carry off a rescue with help remember. In all likelihood Starfleet gave him the job largely because he plays by the rules, as one Captain of the Enterprise being a bit of a renegade and pissing off the Klingons when it is the in-thing is one thing. Giving their new flagship to the same kind of person during a new and fragile peace would be quite another.
As for Esteban he probably was strongly informed by an Admiral beofre he left to play by the book, to not tread on toes and to be very, very careful. He was probably just following orders. His reaction when the BoP appears is a logical "we're dead", as his ship is no match for the Klingon warship that has just appeared.
Not all Captains can be the heroes, some just have to be "Managers".
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