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Who invented Khan?

Give credit where credit is due, at least they used "brown people"

Only occasionally. Most of the time they slathered brown makeup on white actors. (Including Montalban, who was Mexican-born to Spanish immigrant parents.) And "Space Seed" claimed in dialogue that Khan's people were a multiethnic group, but that wasn't actually reflected in the casting.

One thing I found interesting about The Man From U.N.C.L.E.: They would often do episodes set in a non-Western country where all the characters were villains except for the sexy young female guest character who'd been educated in the West and was therefore morally superior to the traditionalists, and a lot of the time, the sexy young woman was the only cast member who actually belonged to the ethnic group being represented while all the others were white actors in brownface, which was often horribly unconvincing next to the one genuinely nonwhite guest star. (Though not always -- there was that time they cast Victoria Vetri as a Native American, for one.)
 
It's funny. I recently watched an old episode of The Adventures of Superman, set in Haiti, where an evil voodoo priest is obviously being played by a white guy in blackface. At first, I was was rolling my eyes but then -- plot twist! -- it turned out that the "voodoo priest" was actually a white guy in greasepaint! Whom Superman exposes by wiping the makeup off his face.

(Mind you, it's still a stretch that the bad guy's disguise was supposed to fool anyone, but at least the casting wasn't as egregious as it first appeared.)
 
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Well, kind of, but Sikhs, like Jews or Amish, are considered an ethnic community as well as a religious one. You can be a member of the community, have it as your heritage, while choosing not to practice the faith.
Granted that my sample set is not large, all three off the "Used to practice the Sikh religion but doesn't any more" people I know refer to themselves as Pakistani, not Sikh. But to be sure, those people have reasons to avoid using the label that others might not.

The boundaries of these things are certainly fuzzy. Are people from Spain "white?" I worked with a Castilian woman who could've passed for my sister - and with a German/Swedish/English/Scots heritage, I'm certainly "white" - who was emphatic that she was not "white." And they change. In 1890, Germans were sufficiently "not white" that when the Manitoba Schools Act more-or-less accidentally allowed German-speaking communities to form their own German-speaking schools, it almost broke Confederation. Today, no-one doubts that Leon Draisatl is "white."


Y'know, I had a point when I started this post but I've lost it now. Definitely getting old...
 
In my Mission: Impossible book, a couple of people go out of their way to praise Joseph Gantman, who produced the first two seasons, for going above and beyond to cast ethnic actors in roles that called for specific ethnicity, instead of slapping makeup on white actors.
Stanley Kallis, who produced parts of the third and fourth season, said Gantman had an eye for character actors that he didn't have, and that he, unfortunately, would fall into the stereotype of casting white actors and putting makeup on them.
 
Granted that my sample set is not large, all three off the "Used to practice the Sikh religion but doesn't any more" people I know refer to themselves as Pakistani, not Sikh. But to be sure, those people have reasons to avoid using the label that others might not.

The boundaries of these things are certainly fuzzy. Are people from Spain "white?" I worked with a Castilian woman who could've passed for my sister - and with a German/Swedish/English/Scots heritage, I'm certainly "white" - who was emphatic that she was not "white." And they change. In 1890, Germans were sufficiently "not white" that when the Manitoba Schools Act more-or-less accidentally allowed German-speaking communities to form their own German-speaking schools, it almost broke Confederation. Today, no-one doubts that Leon Draisatl is "white."


Y'know, I had a point when I started this post but I've lost it now. Definitely getting old...
Spain is in Europe. "White" usually means of European ancestry. But it's often in the eye of the beholder. National, ethnic and religious backgrounds can change perception. Jews, the Irish and Poles have been excluded from being "White" for various reasons.
 
Granted that my sample set is not large, all three off the "Used to practice the Sikh religion but doesn't any more" people I know refer to themselves as Pakistani, not Sikh. But to be sure, those people have reasons to avoid using the label that others might not.

Khan never called himself Sikh either. Only Marla did.


In my Mission: Impossible book, a couple of people go out of their way to praise Joseph Gantman, who produced the first two seasons, for going above and beyond to cast ethnic actors in roles that called for specific ethnicity, instead of slapping makeup on white actors.
Stanley Kallis, who produced parts of the third and fourth season, said Gantman had an eye for character actors that he didn't have, and that he, unfortunately, would fall into the stereotype of casting white actors and putting makeup on them.

The low point for M:I was the episode set in Japan, where they did actually cast Asian actors in all the guest roles, but they also expected us to believe that Paris (Leonard Nimoy) in yellowface makeup would be able to convince real Japanese people that he was one of them.

The original M:I had far less racism in portraying non-Western cultures than The Man from UNCLE did, but only because M:I hardly ever used a setting outside of the Americas, Europe, and the Mideast, with the aforementioned Japan episode being the only one they ever did set in Asia (aside from the opening scene of one later episode). TMfU, by contrast, seemed to go out of its way to find non-Western cultures that it could portray as dangerously backward and savage aside from the one sexy young female member who was Western-educated and sided with the heroes.

Unfortunately, the 1988 M:I revival series was filmed in Australia and did a number of episodes set in Asia or Pacifica, and they were often astonishingly racist.


Spain is in Europe. "White" usually means of European ancestry. But it's often in the eye of the beholder. National, ethnic and religious backgrounds can change perception. Jews, the Irish and Poles have been excluded from being "White" for various reasons.

Of all the ethnic labels, "white" is probably the nastiest one, because it's generally defined on the basis of whom it excludes. And that means the definition can change over time depending on whom it's considered acceptable to discriminate against. (I prefer to think of myself as "Anglo-American," since my paternal ancestors came over from England in 1634, though my maternal ancestors came from Scotland in 1790. Is "Britanno-American" a thing?)
 
IMO, the lines between ethnicity has been blurring over the last several generations.
A couple of personal examples would be my cousin, who married a man from New Delhi.
Their daughter looks like her mom, blonde and blue eyed, while their son looks like his dad.
My friends Bill and Angela are another example.
Bill is Jewish as are his parents. Angela is from England and is blonde, blue eyes.
Again, one daughter looks like her father, the other daughter takes after her mother.
I have a frequent customer who comes into the shop who looks like a blonde, blue eyed Scandinavian, but, is in fact, of Jewish ancestry on both sides of the family.
 
Khan never called himself Sikh either. Only Marla did.

Indeed. I confess I was a bit bemused that everyone got quite so upset about Benedict Cumberbatch playing Khan -- "He's supposed to be a Sikh!" -- even though the whole business about Khan being a Sikh came from just one line of dialogue in "Space Seed" and was never even mentioned in The Wrath of Khan. It's not as though it was a defining aspect of the character. Khan only ever described himself as "superior" to ordinary humans.

Plus, of course, it's not as though Ricardo Montalban was authentically Indian or Pakistani either. :)
 
the whole business about Khan being a Sikh came from just one line of dialogue in "Space Seed" and was never even mentioned in The Wrath of Khan.
Also the name Singh, probably.
I confess I was a bit bemused that everyone got quite so upset about Benedict Cumberbatch playing Khan
Whatever Khan is, it seems like a safe bet to say that he wasn't supposed to be a pasty white Brit.
 
Also the name Singh, probably.

Whatever Khan is, it seems like a safe bet to say that he wasn't supposed to be a pasty white Brit.
I used to suspect his was an assumed name combing powerful names from across human cultures. So he could be a Brit, a Spaniard or an actual Sikh. Could have called himself Genghis Washington Caesar.
 
Also the name Singh, probably.

Whatever Khan is, it seems like a safe bet to say that he wasn't supposed to be a pasty white Brit.

It was strange, though, how folks on the internet kept suggesting actors like Benecio del Tor or Antonio Banderas, confusing Montalban's actual ethnicity with the character's ethnicity.

"Khan has to be an East Indian played by a Hispanic actor!" :)
 
Putting Montalban in brown face to be an Indian on Star Trek wouldn't be the first or last time he'd be cast in that role. Bonanza and Gunsmoke did the same with him (Bonanza had him costarring with Madeline Rhue). Worse was putting him in prosthetic eye makeup in Hawaii Five-O to play a Japanese crime boss.

Not quite as bad as Malachi Throne in "Chinese" makeup with "ah-so" type dialog in Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, but pretty close.

At least when Get Smart did it, it was a comedy.

The 60's were a different time. Watch Danger Man and see all of the white British guys playing Arabs and such. So much brownface.
 
Indeed. I confess I was a bit bemused that everyone got quite so upset about Benedict Cumberbatch playing Khan -- "He's supposed to be a Sikh!" -- even though the whole business about Khan being a Sikh came from just one line of dialogue in "Space Seed" and was never even mentioned in The Wrath of Khan.
They didn't even bother with altering his skin tone. He was just Khan. From somewhere.
 
Indeed. I confess I was a bit bemused that everyone got quite so upset about Benedict Cumberbatch playing Khan -- "He's supposed to be a Sikh!" -- even though the whole business about Khan being a Sikh came from just one line of dialogue in "Space Seed" and was never even mentioned in The Wrath of Khan.

Also, while Sikhs are considered an ethnoreligious group, it's entirely possible for someone of any ethnicity to convert to the Sikh religion, so that shouldn't really matter. And if nothing else, an English accent would make more sense for someone from India than a Mexican accent.


It was strange, though, how folks on the internet kept suggesting actors like Benecio del Tor or Antonio Banderas, confusing Montalban's actual ethnicity with the character's ethnicity.

"Khan has to be an East Indian played by a Hispanic actor!" :)

I was rooting for Naveen Andrews, so I'm glad he finally got the part in the audio drama.


Oh please! talk about a racist comment.

Critiquing one's own ethnic group is not racist. It's self-effacing.
 
Critiquing one's own ethnic group is not racist. It's self-effacing.
Is it? I can't imagine if this comment was said about any other race that it would be acceptable, but since it is about the white race; it is ok; I find that truly bizarre no matter your race. I am glad I don't have a mindset that I generalize people on account of their race but rather the individual personalities. Seems the future is further out than I imaged it would be when I thought about it as a kid.

Besides that, moving on, your comment in an earlier post: "Khan never called himself Sikh either. Only Marla did." was very insightful.
 
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Worse was putting him in prosthetic eye makeup in Hawaii Five-O to play a Japanese crime boss.
Not the first time that happened with him, either. I give you Joshua Logan's 1957 film Sayonara:

MV5BNWNiYmM2NzEtMGQ1Ni00NDU3LWE5OGMtMTUyNmJmOGQwNjZlXkEyXkFqcGc@._V1_.jpg
 
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