Who else here likes the Hirogen?

[Voth commando1]

Workforce was good, Author Author, The Void, Body and Soul, and a few episodes in season 6.

So yeah Voyager had some good eps in the later seasons but I'd say seasons 4-5 were Voyager's strongest.

Come to think of it though I never got the impression even in the last few episodes that the actors were phoning it in like TNG.

Though it seems after Equinox they didn't really know where they wanted the latter part of the series to go and fiddled around with mediocre, poor and good episodes until the finale.

 

[Ghost]

They set them up as if they were going to have a mini-arc within the season like they did with the Hirogen and Malon... but decided to do more "X of the week" stories instead.
Seasons 6 and 7 make me sad. I think those last two years are where the so-called "franchise fatigue" came from. There's still great standalone episodes here and there, but the show stopped having a purpose. It was just on autopilot.

A lot of things should have been done different with Voyager, on the whole series run but also on the final seasons.
Again, I think after "Drone" the Borg should have been ditched or perhaps just make one more strong appearance, playing up to their strengths. And there should perhaps have been more mini arcs, and a long one leading to the return of the Alpha Quadrant that could perhaps have involved the second Caretaker Suspiria.

Heh, we have gone quite off topic.
Out of curiosity, would people have liked it if the Hirogen would have reached the Alpha and Beta Quadrant eventually, because a new threat to the people there. (well in general individuals and small groups of course)

 

[JonVP]

I really liked the Hirogens; a group of nomadic hunters travelling around the galaxy to find new prey. Cool concept for a new alien species. Unfortunately at some point they had to cast actors who weren’t 2 meters tall, so the threat level lowered too.

Still think that The Killing Game is one of the best Trek episodes ever.

 

[Prax]

Hunters and prey are my favorite Hirogen episodes. Especially hunters! It was great seeing Tuvok look so small and skinny next to that guy.

The only Borg episode that I don't really care for is Unimatrix Zero, although I don't find one part of it redeeming, and that's Seven's story. I liked all the rest.

Getting rid of the Borg after season 5 would be like getting rid of the Klingons on DS9 after season 5. There are more nonborg two parties on Voyager than Borg ones. For every 10 Ds9 episodes, Klingons are in about 5, and that may not include Word.

 

[Ghost]

Season 6 should have had the Vaadvaur.

I think the Turei should also have made a couple more appearances, rather upset that the crew of Voyager unleashed the Vaadwaur.

Getting rid of the Borg after season 5 would be like getting rid of the Klingons on DS9 after season 5.

The Klingons didn't decline as a iconic Star Trek species on DSN as the Borg did on Voyager.
That is why I think less of them might have been better.

There could have been another Borg story but the Borg should not be continued to be weakened and deconstructed in order for the Voyager crew to escape or defeat them.

 

[Refuge]

I hated them. Everything about them. If they were real I'd want them dead, the entire species.

 

[DarKush]

I liked the Hirogen. When Voyager was on air I wasn't a fan of the show generally and even though the Hirogen came across as Predator clones I still liked them back then and I like them even more over time. I thought they had a pretty neat look, nice ships, a cool species name as well. Despite my issues with Voyager's quality and characters, the show made some good antagonists, though they used them unevenly.

 

[Ghost]

Despite my issues with Voyager's quality and characters, the show made some good antagonists, though they used them unevenly.

That is a fact, in hindsight the Viidians probably should have been more used than the Kazon, or no Kazon at all, and villains like the Hirogen and the Vaadwaur (and Turei perhaps) should probably have had more episodes.
Not sure what more could be really done with the Malon, I think "Night" and "Juggernaut" is really the extend of their use. It wasn't the Malon society at large who were antagonistic towards Voyager, just a particular group of them.

Which antagonists do you feel should have been more used? I really try to remember all the other ones that were introduced in Voyager that were memorable.
Well Species 8472 perhaps, but they got humanized in "In the Flesh" rather than letting them remain some hostile Lovecraft esque monsters. Plus it would probably lead to more "de powering" like what happened to the Borg.

 

[JonVP]

[QUOTE="Which antagonists do you feel should have been more used? I really try to remember all the other ones that were introduced in Voyager that were memorable.
Well Species 8472 perhaps, but they got humanized in "In the Flesh" rather than letting them remain some hostile Lovecraft esque monsters. Plus it would probably lead to more "de powering" like what happened to the Borg.[/QUOTE]

Off the top of my head: the Vaadwaur and the Krenim. Especially the Krenim. It would have been nice if they had made an entire arc out of the two-part episode “Year of Hell”. There were so many interesting storylines that could have been explored here.

 

[Prax]

I think the Turei should also have made a couple more appearances, rather upset that the crew of Voyager unleashed the Vaadwaur.



The Klingons didn't decline as a iconic Star Trek species on DSN as the Borg did on Voyager.
That is why I think less of them might have been better.

There could have been another Borg story but the Borg should not be continued to be weakened and deconstructed in order for the Voyager crew to escape or defeat them.

The Borg were only defeated in the finale, as well they should have been. They weren't weakened, rather Starfleet, and Voyager simply grew more familiar with them, their technology, tactics, etc. They had Seven. The "trapped between worlds" character. The Borg didn't want to destroy Voyager.

Yes, they were really scary when you're a kid watching Q-Who. I saw it on TV sitting in my living room floor, but they can't stay that way. In BoBW, they are still a threat, but a defeatable one. By Iborg, the Borg are not really a threat. By Descent, the Borg are just biomechanical thugs. SF can now adapt to most of their technology.

First Contact made them quite scary again, and reinvented them. Voyager built off of this. Except for Uni Zero, imo, the Borg Stories were done very well.

The Klingons got soooo repetitive on DS9, especially s6&7. All I remember them saying is "Blood Wine! 2309...the finest vintage!" They became more and more one dimensional. Even Word.

EDIT: The Enterprise episode Regeneration, a sequel to First Contact, also had very scary, undefeatable Borg. The Borg can achieve this effect in a story, but only when the protagonist have no idea what they're dealing with.

 

[Vandervecken]

Loved the Hirogen. Going over in my mind why I liked them, and I did have a thought I hadn't had before--the actors. The actors chosen to play the Hirogen were damn good. Clint Carmichael in Prey was especially good, but I enjoyed all of them; the second in command, I think Mark Deakins, in the Killing Game is also very good. They really sold me on what they were.

 

[Voth commando1]

The Borg weren't defeated in the finale-kicked in the groin and bashed in the chest yes but not defeated. In both the novel timeline and STO they recover.

The Hirogen were a sensible villain given Voyager's premise nomadic aliens who had a culture that made negotiation difficult and conflict sensible.

 

[Farscape One]

Tony Todd was in "PREY".

I really liked the Hirogen. Great concept, cool ships, menacing name.

I think the Vidiians were a scary early villain. A species that perfects organ harvesting? That was creepy, especially after seeing what happened to Lt. Durst in "FACES".

I didn't like the Kazon, though enjoyed Seska as a villain.

The Krenim would have been a great race to explore more. I wonder if the future Federation ever dealt with them... maybe even got their hands on some of that temporal technology.

They got as much mileage out of the Malon as I think was possible... though one wonders how their empire can span 30,000 light years, given that we encounter them in the season 5 premiere and the ship traversed a lot of distance in "TIMELESS" and "DARK FRONTIER" before encluntering them again in "JUGGERNAUT".

The Vaadwaur and Turei were a missed opportunity. Should have been at least an arc.

 

[Voth commando1]

When Voyager dealt with the Borg my IU interpretation is they survived for a few reasons-one Voyager wasn't worth it, second they had a lot of good schemes that worked on a gamble, third just plain luck.

 

[Sophie74656]

When Voyager dealt with the Borg my IU interpretation is they survived for a few reasons-one Voyager wasn't worth it, second they had a lot of good schemes that worked on a gamble, third just plain luck.

Was Voyager worth it for the Borg? I don't think any federation ship is worth it for them. I've said this before. The Borg have nothing more to gain from the Federation. They've assimilates officers, including Picard so they know all about the technology and anything that Picard knew. They also know the Federation's tactical capability which is clearly no threat. So they have nothing to gain.

 

[Ghost]

They got as much mileage out of the Malon as I think was possible... though one wonders how their empire can span 30,000 light years, given that we encounter them in the season 5 premiere and the ship traversed a lot of distance in "TIMELESS" and "DARK FRONTIER" before encountering them again in "JUGGERNAUT".

I had forgotten about that but you are right, having "Juggernaut" take place after these two episodes would not make sense. This should have been an early episode in Season 5.
This isn't the only questionable writing, I understand that during another episode the Malon and Viidians have some kind of border issue. How is that possible when Viidian space is thousands of lights years away from what we assume is Malon territory, no to mention it is behind Borg space.

At some point distance totally made no sense any more on Voyager.

 

[Sophie74656]

Tony Todd was in "PREY".

I really liked the Hirogen. Great concept, cool ships, menacing name.

I think the Vidiians were a scary early villain. A species that perfects organ harvesting? That was creepy, especially after seeing what happened to Lt. Durst in "FACES".

I didn't like the Kazon, though enjoyed Seska as a villain.

The Krenim would have been a great race to explore more. I wonder if the future Federation ever dealt with them... maybe even got their hands on some of that temporal technology.

They got as much mileage out of the Malon as I think was possible... though one wonders how their empire can span 30,000 light years, given that we encounter them in the season 5 premiere and the ship traversed a lot of distance in "TIMELESS" and "DARK FRONTIER" before encluntering them again in "JUGGERNAUT".

The Vaadwaur and Turei were a missed opportunity. Should have been at least an arc.

Well in Night the Malon they encountered had been using a wormhole to get to that area. It took them far from Malon space so they can dump their crap and no other Malon knew about it

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Hirogen were established as the sort of villain like Vidians whose main charge is so inflexible they can never be anything but a survival threat. But whereas they made Vidians a little more three dimensional with holo-proxy body girl, their attempt to do this with the Hirogen in Killing Game just made them seem infinitely more ridiculous.

 

[Sakonna]

Do people feel that there were any "memorable" species on Voyager outside the Borg (technically they are from TNG)?

I find the Vidiians really memorable. They were a terrifying concept for an alien race.

With the Hirogen, I remember loving that Voyager was finally doing some solid continuity with that arc. I suppose they did end up less unique than they initially seemed, but I gave them extra points for the structure of of those 5 shows and the great visual design. I remember them as interesting species (I may have never seen their last appearance -- or only technically -- the TV was on, but I was almost entirely focused on homework)

 

[Prax]

I had forgotten about that but you are right, having "Juggernaut" take place after these two episodes would not make sense. This should have been an early episode in Season 5.
This isn't the only questionable writing, I understand that during another episode the Malon and Viidians have some kind of border issue. How is that possible when Viidian space is thousands of lights years away from what we assume is Malon territory, no to mention it is behind Borg space.

At some point distance totally made no sense any more on Voyager.

All of the Malon episodes are in season 5. There's nothing fishy about it. The Vidiians are from season 1 and 2, and long gone by this point.

There is an episode in season 5 that mentions them. It's "Think Tank." The think tank claims to have cured the phage.

Having Hirogen in season 7 is a little weird, but even in season 4, after checking a Malon vessels flight path, discovered it had travelled thousands of LY.

Voyager is pretty consistent about their travelled distance, from season to season.