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White House responds to petition about ET

PurpleBuddha

Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
"Thank you for signing the petition asking the Obama Administration to acknowledge an extraterrestrial presence here on Earth. The U.S. government has no evidence that any life exists outside our planet, or that an extraterrestrial presence has contacted or engaged any member of the human race. In addition, there is no credible information to suggest that any evidence is being hidden from the public's eye. However, that doesn't mean the subject of life outside our planet isn't being discussed or explored. In fact, there are a number of projects working toward the goal of understanding if life can or does exist off Earth. Here are a few examples:"

Full response:

Here.

There were actually two positions both essentially demanding the government acknowledge communication with ETs.

I am really kind of surprised any response came at all, but I think it is kind of cute. They must realize this will convince the people who wrote and signed the petition more than ever that the government is covering something up.
 
They must realize this will convince the people who wrote and signed the petition more than ever that the government is covering something up.
Huh? What were they supposed to do, lie and say they had contacted aliens? Because they sure as hell haven't.
 
Well, I liked this response far better than a few other government responses I've read recently. It was certainly cool to read, although I must admit a part of me wishes it was a lie because reading it makes me think about the way they would announce such first contact in a few million years. :D
 
I simply pity the poor lower level flunky that has to respond to these "petitions".
 
Yup, petitioning the government to admit that they are communicating with aliens is pretty much hilarious and crazy. I hope they got a good laugh at it.

(Unfortunately, I think that they have a good laugh at the sane petitions as well, but oh well, that's for another thread.)

We should petition to government to admit that they are having secret contacts with Santa. And are bribing him not to give us our presents. :(
 
No, he's not trying to throw us off. In fact, I'm certain that he is one of the aliens and that is how he knows they haven't been contacted by our government yet.
 
They must realize this will convince the people who wrote and signed the petition more than ever that the government is covering something up.
Huh? What were they supposed to do, lie and say they had contacted aliens? Because they sure as hell haven't.

LOL. Where did that come from?

I was simply pointing out that it was cute that they were indulging the crazy people. The alternative would have been to continue to ignore them, but I am glad they didn't. It is more fun this way.
 
They must realize this will convince the people who wrote and signed the petition more than ever that the government is covering something up.
Huh? What were they supposed to do, lie and say they had contacted aliens? Because they sure as hell haven't.

LOL. Where did that come from?

I was simply pointing out that it was cute that they were indulging the crazy people. The alternative would have been to continue to ignore them, but I am glad they didn't. It is more fun this way.

After posting, I realized that my comment sounded a bit more condescending than I actually meant for it to be. Sorry about that:)

And rest assured, I am not one of them.
 
Well, if you start with the right choice of assumptions, you can find a mathematical proof for absolutely anything. I can prove that aliens don't exist in half of an equation.
 
We should petition to government to admit that they are having secret contacts with Santa. And are bribing him not to give us our presents. :(

They would never admit that the debt we owe to china is slowly being paid off by having Santa deliver all the presents that would normally go to us to China.

Then they would also have to admit that since Santa is no longer delivering toys to the US, the parents have been picking up the slack by buying chinese goods at wal-mart which is putting us in even further debt to the chinese....

So every year the contract that China gets our presents gets extended exponentially.

At this rate Santa will never visit the USA before the Sun Explodes in 2 billion years.....
 
The Drake equation is reliant on the numbers used, so it really works well for both sides of the argument. The real problem I have is that Fermi's paradox is very convincing in it's logical simplicity. It's hard to deny.
 
If we accept Einstein's mathematics, why not the also the Drake equation (and others)?
I've done the math, and Drake's Equation shows that we're it for the time being.

---------------

The Drake equation is very simple math. I am sure that even the people on this board with little math skills could be made to understand it without too much effort. The problem of course is the variables. We get more information all the time that helps us to make better guesses at a few of them. However, the most of the important variables can only be filled in by a guess from the gut. Your calculations to the extent that they produced a number relied heavily on you filling in some of the variables with massive guesswork. So you cannot declare that "we are it," base on that. Nor can one declare the opposite position.

The Drake equation was meant less to be a formula predicting the chances of life, and more something to identify the variables we would need to quantify in order to predit the chance of not only life, but life that is somewhat simular to the life we know. It is also a fun equation to fill in with your gut guess work and see what the odds are if you happened to be correct.

Here are the variables from wiki:

R* = the average rate of star formation per year in our galaxy
fp = the fraction of those stars that have planets
ne = the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets
fℓ = the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop life at some point
fi = the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop intelligent life
fc = the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space
L = the length of time for which such civilizations release detectable signals into space.

1) and 2) - We are getting our hands around that more and more each day. We have a good deal of data here and can make educated guesses that will get better and better with little time.

3) We still have little idea here. We are just barely getting to the point where we can find "habitable" planets in the sense that they could support life like ours. We certainly are not to the point where we can make a well informed educated guess as to the number and distribution. Of course, this also discounts even considering the odds of life that may be able to live in dramatically different conditions from our own.

4) We can say even less about this variable. We still are wrapping our hands around abiogenesis and would have a difficult time saying what the odds were for this process to occur on Earth much less a similar process on another planet, not to mention any possible completely different process that we have yet to discover.

5) I am not certain about how much a biologist could say here. I am reasonably up on evolution but have never really looked at it from this stand point. I believe that being able to quantify the odds of it happening on Earth at least gives us a starting point to make educated guesses elsewhere, but I am not sure how far along we are here. Maybe someone else knows.

6) and 7) Both involve social sciences as much as anything else, which can produce wildly varying results. Predicting this variable with the information at our disposal currently is nothing more than going on a gut feeling and pulling a number out of the air.

So no matter how much of a math ninja you are, your final value is only as good as your inputs. Garbage in, garbage out.
 
The Drake equation is reliant on the numbers used, so it really works well for both sides of the argument. The real problem I have is that Fermi's paradox is very convincing in it's logical simplicity. It's hard to deny.

I have never found the Fermi paradox remotely convincing and have always viewed it more like a game to start brainstorming about what we need to look for life elsewhere. What about it do you find convincing? The question is sincere as I fully admit I may be over looking something.
 
At it's core the Fermi paradox is just a restatement of Occam's Razor applied to aliens. If there are aliens, there should be convincing evidence. The more we look without finding said evidence, the stronger Fermi's paradox becomes. Rationalizations for why we aren't finding evidence have to become increasingly convoluted, stretching credibility.

That being said, absence of proof is not proof of absence. There is still plenty of room for Fermi's paradox to be over turned.
 
At it's core the Fermi paradox is just a restatement of Occam's Razor applied to aliens. If there are aliens, there should be convincing evidence. The more we look without finding said evidence, the stronger Fermi's paradox becomes. Rationalizations for why we aren't finding evidence have to become increasingly convoluted, stretching credibility.

That being said, absence of proof is not proof of absence. There is still plenty of room for Fermi's paradox to be over turned.

Yeah that is pretty much how I understand it. I would apply the Occam's razor analogy if someone made the premise that our galaxy is nearly over crowded with intelligent life. Were that the argument, I would have the say the most likely answer is no, or we would probably know about it. But if it is sparsely populated, then in some respects the opposite is true. At this level of advancement it seems highly unlikely that we would be able to obtain any evidence of a civilization that may be 1000s of light years away.

I even doubt we would be aware of a civilization just 100 light years away. But if such civilizations are that close , or even a bit further away (and that is a big if), we may be nearing the point of finding out once we can really start analyzing the atmospheric compositions of these planets we are finding.
 
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