Which of course is why DS9 is less popular than Voyager.
Funny, since most of DS9's writers came from TNG...
Beverly Hills 90210 was more popular than ST: Voyager, so what the hell does that say about the viewing audience ass hat?
Which serise was Worf the best in?
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Beverly Hills 90210 was more popular than ST: Voyager, so what the hell does that say about the viewing audience ass hat?
Which of course is why DS9 is less popular than Voyager.
Funny, since most of DS9's writers came from TNG...
Beverly Hills 90210 was more popular than ST: Voyager, so what the hell does that say about the viewing audience ass hat?
Name calling? Come back when you're ready to have a big boy discussion...
My personal fav:
Sisko: "Alright, Niners, let's hear some chatter!"
Kassidy: "Hey, batter, batter, batter, batter, batter!"
Leeta: "Hey, batter, batter, batter, batter, batter, batter, batter!"
Worf: "Death to the opposition!"
That was one of my favorite DS9 episodes.
I also like how In Purgatory's Shadow, he just shrugs off all Garak's taunts and insults. TNG Worf probably would be growling and on the verge of attacking Garak.
And don't forget:
"At the first sign of treachery, I will kill him, BUT...I promise to leave the body intact."
And of course, who can forget his busting Jadzia's chops on the runabout in "Change of Heart", effectively returning the favor....
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I'm really meh on TNG generally but from what I recall I thought Worf got more interesting as a character in the Moore-written/produced later episodes. DS9 is just better written all-round, but I'm with others here on Worf just not being distinctive or interesting enough. Apart from the Cyrano episode and even that's so-so.
A bystander on TNG?!? Worf is either the most developed or second-most(depends on where you rank Data) developed character on TNG. He got the biggest character arcs of the entire series, from the "dishonor" to having his honor restored arc, to Alexander Rozhenko.
He was much more in the background on DS9. In fact, even Michael Dorn said something about how only a handful of season 4 DS9 shows featured Worf in a prominent way.
Precisely. As you said before, he stood out on TNG and not merely in a quirky way. And despite off that he is accepted by everybody.
I mean, gee, nowadays everybody talks about this identity politics bullshit, how Trek should be more inclusive and so on while ignoring hard political stuff, that the Federation should be an emancipatory institution ... and there is a character who embodies all of that, who is a weird and hard-to-stand Klingon fellow that is nonetheless liked by the crew of the Enterprise, whose stupid idiosyncrasies are cherished.
I mean, gee, nowadays everybody talks about this identity politics bullshit, how Trek should be more inclusive and so on while ignoring hard political stuff, that the Federation should be an emancipatory institution ... and there is a character who embodies all of that, who is a weird and hard-to-stand Klingon fellow that is nonetheless liked by the crew of the Enterprise, whose stupid idiosyncrasies are cherished.
Which of course is why DS9 is less popular than Voyager.
Funny, since most of DS9's writers came from TNG...
The main difference between TNG and DS9 was that TNG, by the very premise of the show, was out exploring strange new worlds every week. DS9 couldn't do that, so they had to focus more on character devolopment and political intrigue.
Really that's what made DS9 my favorite. It really fleshed out and gave depth to many of the species we had already met. Cardassians, Bajorians, Ferengi, even the Klingons.
DS9.
He was great on TNG, but I think he was used far more effectively on DS9. One thing that always impressed me about First Contact is that it's the DS9 Worf who returns to the Enterprise. It would have been easy to have him just slot back into his old relationships with that crew, but instead we have a Worf who has learned from Sisko, and challenges Picard in a way I don't think he would have on TNG. It's the perfect example of his development as a character on DS9, and it's a shame that in INS and (particularly) NEM we seemed to get TNG Worf again.
He was great on TNG, but I think he was used far more effectively on DS9. One thing that always impressed me about First Contact is that it's the DS9 Worf who returns to the Enterprise. It would have been easy to have him just slot back into his old relationships with that crew, but instead we have a Worf who has learned from Sisko, and challenges Picard in a way I don't think he would have on TNG. It's the perfect example of his development as a character on DS9, and it's a shame that in INS and (particularly) NEM we seemed to get TNG Worf again.
*jaw drops* You are my hero.
It would've been nice to have a scene where, after Worf and Picard blow up at each other, we see Picard grumpily heading back to the conference room, audibly muttering under his breath, "Goddamn that Sisko, first he rags on me about his wife, now he turns Mr. Woof against me..."
You know, Iamnotspock, it's funny you should mention First Contact and DS9's influence on how Worf comes accross....
I recall, J.M. Dillard's novelization of the film more directly emphasizes exactly that. A nice moment--in the book, when Riker asks, "You do remember how to fire phasers...?" to which, instead of frowning in bewilderment at Will (as he does in the film), Worf deadpans, "The green button...right?"
Riker muses that Worf's time on DS9 was clearly good for his friend.
I recall, J.M. Dillard's novelization of the film more directly emphasizes exactly that. A nice moment--in the book, when Riker asks, "You do remember how to fire phasers...?" to which, instead of frowning in bewilderment at Will (as he does in the film), Worf deadpans, "The green button...right?"
Riker muses that Worf's time on DS9 was clearly good for his friend.
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No one ever said that the American TV audience is smart.
I disagree with this. DS9 was probably the most consistent and even of the Trek series. There are a lot less really terrible episodes in it than there are in others, because there's no equivalent to the first two seasons of TNG, the first two seasons of ENT, the third season of TOS, etc.
Why should be 'realize' something that's only your opinion? To a lot of people, DS9 has a lot more then only a third that's good.
Some people go on and on about Enterprise. Me, kind meh. Others think Voyager is the best Trek ever. Me, kinda feel like you feel about DS9/Trek in general.
Just because you feel a certain way about DS9, or even Trek in general, doesn't mean others must do that as well.
How dare you presume to imply that I can't ram my opinion down other's throat. I don't think you should even think like that!
In the DS9 companion there's an anecdote about how Ronald D. Moore joined the writing staff of DS9. He was actually all eager to join Voyager since he wanted to try being on the staff of a show from the beginning. When asked to join DS9 he said, "I donwanna" but I think it was either Michael Piller or Jeri Taylor who urged him to do so saying "You'll learn a lot working for Ira Stephen Behr." And I would say that he did. Basically, my point is that people grow and change.
Another point I'd make, and I apologize for the gross over-simplification, is that TNG had a nice balance of science fiction and character development. It tended to be the writers who wrote more of the character-based stories went to DS9 (Ronald D. Moore, Rene Echevarria, Hans Beimler), while the more high-concept writers went to VOY (Joe Menosky, Brannon Braga). I think that in such a marriage of styles the character-based writers tend to be more creatively successful after the divorce.
I cannot defeat this Klingon. All I can do is kill him; and that no longer holds my interest.
Most of DS9 season 4 seemed to be written without any idea that Worf was around, perhaps the scripts were outlined before they know Worf was joining, perhaps the writers didn't have any idea. Once Season 5 started, with his interactions with Dax and Martok expanding on the tenuous link with OBrien, Worf became much better.
Worf was great in both series and,brought something different to both.As far as stories written for the character ,DS9 did it better.
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