Which races naturally evolved?

[Nerys Ghemor]

For me, I don't think the producers had thought through just how different Cardassians and Bajorans really were, based on the traits they'd revealed about the Cardassians. That's why I DID assume that the canon Dukat was up to something, being the master liar and actor that he is, and that the scenario was in fact much closer to what you outlined with Sela--at least as far as HIS motivations.

(You may have also caught a reference to my alternate universe and what happened with THAT Dukat. If you wish to find out what happened there...the story to read is "Exits in the Haze." I warn you that it may have disturbing content, even though it's deliberately kept very vague.)

 

[Myasishchev]

What Mycobac said.

 

[ltcmmanderdata]

breen and tholians evolved naturally too

 

[Myasishchev]

^We don't know about the Breen. Theoretically, they could still be humanoids--in fact, they almost definitely are, morphologically. Look at the suits. As to whether they have any biochemical relation to humans, that's probably doubtful. Personally I like to think of the Breen as a having an ammonia-based biochemistry. Then again, the Vulcans must have a very different, if not entirely alien, biochemistry, and yet were the result of the first humanoids' work.

Really, other than the few species pointed out in the Chase, many humanoids could have evolved naturally (hey, Salome Jens' people apparently did).

Funny thing about the Breen. I was watching Indiscretion the other day, where Kira and Dukat use Breen uniforms to infiltrate the slave labor camp, which a lot of people point out as putting to lie Worf's claim in S7 about no one having ever seen a Breen sans suit. But if it says that they actually took those suits from Breen corpses, I totally missed it. They could've replicated them up and still have no idea what Breen look like under them.

 

[Timo]

Quite true. The same might apply to Kira donning a Breen suit the second time around, in "What You Leave Behind" IIRC. She could have stolen it from somebody's closet; prying it from a corpse would be much harder work, and shouldn't that suit then show greater signs of having been violated? One would assume the Breen would build an anti-stun feature into the suit, making piercing shots or attacks by physical weapons the only viable way of commandeering such a suit from a resisting owner.

Of course, since Kira and Dukat both know what such a suit looks like from the inside, they must have some insight to the nature of the Breen. At least their knowledge eliminates some of the more exotic paths of speculation. But Worf's overdramaticed choice of words could still remain literally true.

Incidentally, in "A Man Alone" already we learn that Odo is based on DNA. The natural evolution of DNA twice is nearly impossible - there are too many competing ways to create a self-replicating molecule, be it double helix or something more exotic. That would suggest that all DNA in the galaxy comes from the proto-humanoids of "The Chase".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Incidentally, in "A Man Alone" already we learn that Odo is based on DNA. The natural evolution of DNA twice is nearly impossible - there are too many competing ways to create a self-replicating molecule, be it double helix or something more exotic. That would suggest that all DNA in the galaxy comes from the proto-humanoids of "The Chase".

Timo Saloniemi

Just curious...has science done any work on self-replicating molecules that aren't DNA, to determine what could also be effective enough for life?

 

[Timo]

We need not go further than changing the nature of the sugars that form the helix backbones. It's only DNA if it's deoxiribonucleic acid specifically. Alien life would have the choice of any letter in the alphabet for replacing D, so to say; even here on Earth, there exists a successfully competing form, the RNA. It just chooses to compete by cooperating...

Beyond that, we can change the bases that lock the strands together and carry the code. This wouldn't invalidate the name DNA, of course - it just goes to show that our kind of DNA formed more or less at random, because an almost infinite number of alternatives for the bases would be possible, but only four or five are used by our DNA.

No doubt other, quite distinct chemical structures for the backbones and connecting rungs exist. It may still all be "carbon-based life", and it might all be of the double helix or double strain type, but it could be as different from DNA chemically as, say, diesel oil is. And of course it might be made to work with other kinds of chain-forming elements, too, but that's largely outside the scope of the Trek problematique.

I'm not aware of developments in self-replicating molecules similar to DNA in complexity and robustness. The basic idea of self-replication is easily turned into practice with modern technology, though: molecules that create copies of themselves have been successfully synthesized since the 1990s and the pathfinding work of one Julius Rebek.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Rebek

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Interesting...and also getting quite a laugh that I unknowingly chose this man's surname for one of the Cardassian guls in my fanfic!!

 

[DevilEyes]

For me, I don't think the producers had thought through just how different Cardassians and Bajorans really were, based on the traits they'd revealed about the Cardassians. That's why I DID assume that the canon Dukat was up to something, being the master liar and actor that he is, and that the scenario was in fact much closer to what you outlined with Sela--at least as far as HIS motivations.

This theory doesn't really hold water, based on Dukat's subsequent behavior in the episode. He didn't show any interest in being the baby's father, or even keeping it alive after the planned mass suicide.

We just have to accept the premise that Bajorans and Cardassians can have children together without a need for any kind of medical treatment or interference. If we were to treat Trek science as actually having anything to do with actual science, then we'd have to come to the conclusions that a least those two races are very closely related. But in that case, Cardassians can't have reptilian origins as some seems to believe (which IMO doesn't make sense).

But, Trek science is not exactly the same as real science, and doesn't always make sense...

 

[UncleRogi]

"The Chase" was stupid.

Care to justify that statement, it was nice that Moore decided to bring back the TOS Preservers and give SOME kind of explanation for the humanoid aliens (and potential origin of the Founders).

I must agree

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

For me, I don't think the producers had thought through just how different Cardassians and Bajorans really were, based on the traits they'd revealed about the Cardassians. That's why I DID assume that the canon Dukat was up to something, being the master liar and actor that he is, and that the scenario was in fact much closer to what you outlined with Sela--at least as far as HIS motivations.

This theory doesn't really hold water, based on Dukat's subsequent behavior in the episode. He didn't show any interest in being the baby's father, or even keeping it alive after the planned mass suicide.

The baby was a tool, I'd say, one that he decided he needed to get his followers to stick with him. Plus, I would say he was not interested in being the baby's father, but forcing an attachment between him and Mika. The whole thing was an exercise in power much as Mycobac suggested happened with the birth of Sela.

BTW, I would say the Cardassians are therapsids, not true reptilians, if you ask me how they're classified.

 

[DevilEyes]

For me, I don't think the producers had thought through just how different Cardassians and Bajorans really were, based on the traits they'd revealed about the Cardassians. That's why I DID assume that the canon Dukat was up to something, being the master liar and actor that he is, and that the scenario was in fact much closer to what you outlined with Sela--at least as far as HIS motivations.

This theory doesn't really hold water, based on Dukat's subsequent behavior in the episode. He didn't show any interest in being the baby's father, or even keeping it alive after the planned mass suicide.

The baby was a tool, I'd say, one that he decided he needed to get his followers to stick with him. Plus, I would say he was not interested in being the baby's father, but forcing an attachment between him and Mika. The whole thing was an exercise in power much as Mycobac suggested happened with the birth of Sela.

BTW, I would say the Cardassians are therapsids, not true reptilians, if you ask me how they're classified.

How so? He didn't need to do anything to get his followers to stick with him, they were already following him like sheep. The baby only could have ruined the whole thing for him, had his followers been a little less gullible, and you really need to be incredibly gullible to swallow the BS - which he obviously came up with on the spot. And the fact they were actually that gullible is another proof that there was no need to do anything to reinforce their devotion.

He didn't seem interested in reinforcing his attachment to Mika either (and if he had been - he wouldn't have needed a child to achieve that, he already had power over his followers the way that cult leaders do, due to their idiotic devotion), in fact he considered her a liability and tried to kill her. If anything, having his baby gave her an amount of power over him, not the other way round, since she could have tried to tell the others that it was in fact his baby. Which is why he tried to kill her.

 

[Bones2]

Has anyone mentioned the Sheliak yet? Those dodgepots probably evolved naturally.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

The Horta strike me as a 'pure' species that specifically evolved to suit the environment they were in.

 

[Vonstadt]

Q, The Squire of Gothos's race, the Prophets/Pah Wraithes. Most likely the wrom half of the Trill, the shapeshifters (Star Trek VI and the ship sized shifters from 'Encounter at Farpoint') to name a few.

Vons

 

[I am not Spock]

The Trekverse does seem a bit small doesn't it, Timo?

One would think that Anticans, Cardassians, 19th century cardshark humans, and Romulans were related...