I also wrote most of this... Hugh, please use the "quote" button... it'll really be less confusing for people, and will credit the quote to the actual author who wrote it.
Where TOS stumbled....
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
I also wrote most of this... Hugh, please use the "quote" button... it'll really be less confusing for people, and will credit the quote to the actual author who wrote it.
I just don't someone else getting in trouble for anything I have said... if my words upset... then I'm the one that the vitriol ought be directed to, not someone else who never made the remarks in the first place.
So, the third season is now Barry Goldwater's fault?
I think Freiberger's main problem is that he was approaching Star Trek in a traditional producer's mindset, i.e., comedies are comedies, action/adventures are action/adventures and never the twain shall meet (after all, The Wild, Wild West didn't do comedy episodes, Hawaii Five-O didn't do comedy episodes...), and he could never quite get it through his head that Star Trek was not a traditional show. They were trying to tread new ground, and he was following the rulebook from The Naked City.
I think he need to looks at some other shows then. Bonanza used to do a comedy episode every once in a while. I think Gunsmoke did as well.
Dusty Ayres
Commodore
Okay...Bobby Kennedy then...
I seem to recall some being hilarious.
This is not a popular opinion, but I think Way To Eden holds up remarkably well, ~45 years later. The hippies make you cringe, but they also make the Enterprise crew cringe – especially Kirk. So our reaction to them actually serves the dramatic purpose.
The actual story, about a group of smart kids who reject the contemporary culture for some quasi-agrarian peace & love ideal, and are sold a cultish bill of goods by a charismatic but dangerous and unbalanced leader – the actual story is pretty solid. If you can look past the costumes and the music, the story stands up pretty well.
(There is a superbly creepy moment in this episode, at the last commercial break, where Adam's sung "Hey brother" echoes over the loudspeaker thru the corridors of the ship, as we view the unconscious crew.)
I have no opinion about whether Fontana's original Joanna script would have been better. She was good, and accomplished, and knew her Trek. Her later script for Yesteryear in the Animated series was a masterpiece, one of the very best episodes of any version of the series. I'm sure her version would have been good. But I also think the episode we have is pretty good.
At the very least, Way To Eden is much, much better than its reputation among TOS fans.
Well, I need to revisit it then.
I haven't watched it since the first time I saw it. (keep in mind I am 24 years old and only became a fan of TOS when the Blu rays were released... although I almost always prefer original special effects)
I remember being embarrassed to watch it, even alone, and I'm the type of person who is not embarassed by my star trek fandom. I hope that the next time I view it, that I can look at it in the same light that you do. I will try to keep in mind that the officers are cringing at the stupid hippy BS just as much as the audience.
It's hard to like this episode without growing up surrounded by hippie culture though, methinks. As a child of the 80s, it's difficult perhaps. But I will try! I will watch it soon, and when I do, I'll let you all know
I'd agree Trek stumbled with the "humor" eps. Watch those three in a row, then go back to Man Trap, Little Girls, Corbo, Naked. What a difference. Then all the ______ Planet eps in S2, also.
S3 actually is a step in the right direction IMHO, though they seem a bit too easily-made. Hard to avoid, though, as tptb had, of course, been making eps for two years.
Be well.
S3 actually is a step in the right direction IMHO, though they seem a bit too easily-made. Hard to avoid, though, as tptb had, of course, been making eps for two years.
Be well.
Of all the humour oriented episodes 1st Season's "Shore Leave" is the one that works best I think. Maybe because it balances the humour better and there's a stronger sense of menace. Having McCoy apparently killed is a real slap-in-the-face.
But there's no real sense of jeopardy in the other humour episodes and I think they're poorer for it.
I agree that many of 3rd Season's episodes were a step back toward the 1st Season's sensibilities. They didn't always work, but it's noticeable and I appreciated it.
But there's no real sense of jeopardy in the other humour episodes and I think they're poorer for it.
I agree that many of 3rd Season's episodes were a step back toward the 1st Season's sensibilities. They didn't always work, but it's noticeable and I appreciated it.
TOS never stumbled.
I'm a diehard TOS guy and trust me, it stumbled alot.
But since they were doing something different, the stumbles were far more interesting than most other shows successes.
Well, even Naked City had its comedy episodes. "No Naked Ladies In Front of Giovanni's House!" is a good example.
Tribble Herder
Lieutenant Commander
Is it just me, or are there a lot of very thoughtful posts in this thread from posters who have been sacked?
As for the above point, I think the good captain was talking about Freiberger's mindset, that dramas are dramas and comedies are comedies and you don't mix the two. Obviously, plenty of otherwise dramatic shows had the occasional romp, just to break up the monotony.
Besides, Frieberger wasn't with The Wild Wild West beyond the first season, so...
As for the above point, I think the good captain was talking about Freiberger's mindset, that dramas are dramas and comedies are comedies and you don't mix the two. Obviously, plenty of otherwise dramatic shows had the occasional romp, just to break up the monotony.
Besides, Frieberger wasn't with The Wild Wild West beyond the first season, so...
No, don't misinterpret. The hippies have always seemed corny! Those who were surrounded by actual hippie culture hated the faux hippies in this episode even more than you do. In the show, the older officers are more grumpy/irritated by the hippies, than the younger officers and crew.
The Spock/Kirk chemistry was everything on that show, and without Nimoy/Shatner, it wouldn't have happened.
