Where TOS stumbled....

[Zeppster]

TOS is my favorite TREK series, but I'll concede that they could have fleshed out Scotty, Sulu, Chekov, and Uhura more. The later shows had more of an ensemble feel.

Of course, that's partly a result of the show's shorter run. I like to think that TOS would have gotten around to a Sulu- or Uhura-centric episode eventually--if it had run seven seasons like most of the later series.

While I agree, having the 3 main guys and then the rest of the cast only there for a few lines to play off the main 3 guys made the show more accessible to a movie. TNG was not good in the big screen because it was ensemble, it made it harder to have strong characters to go through the entire movie.

 

[Wingsley]

I suppose there are a couple of ways to approach this kind of "hind sight is 20-20" type thread: you can imagine going back in time to the 1960's and trying to herd Hollywood into doing a better job with TOS by avoid perceived mistakes, OR you could imagine what fan-shows like New Voyages / Phase II and/or Starship Exeter would do to make TOS better today.

In either case, one could argue that, in the 1960's context, the sexism and some of the hokey plot devices (such as a "parallel Earths", probably the worst of them being a tie between "Miri" and "The Omega Glory") are the expected risks you take when you embark on the pioneering new TV show that was ahead of its time. You have to break some eggs to make an omelet, as the saying goes. So, while I agree that the show did make some hilarious blunders, those blunders come with the territory. One of my favorite TOS outings was "Bread and Circuses", a "parallel Earth" ep done right.

But yes, hind-sight being 20-20, women in TREK did get a cringe-worthy raw deal. I'm not sure if introducing a female senior officer to the show (like, maybe, Captain Robin April of the U.S.S. Scimitar) would fly on TV back then, but at least I'm pleased to see Holly Guess' impressive portrayal of Exeter's XO in "The Tressaurian Intersection".

Setting the sexism issue aside, TOS fell into too many cliches. It's like the staff had trouble cultivating fresh ideas. Kirk falls in love. Scotty falls in love. Spock falls in love. Yawn. Another disease, another cure. Another space-monster, another cure. Double yawn. TOS' makers should have learned from their own classics to go back to basics and develop relationships that build the characters and what they stand for. Instead of saying the doomed-other-starship-captain-of-the-week (Decker, Tracey, Merrick), we needed to see Kirk's positive professional relationships with other commanders, working together to deal with situations. I would've loved to see more of Stone, Mendez and Komack, as well as fellow commanders and captains.

TOS showed the Enterprise visiting planetary bases and space stations as ports-of-call, but they did not explore this enough.

I realize that the show had severe budget constraints. but one thing they needed to introduce to expand the TOS worldview was a different class of starship, perhaps a lesser class, that could work with Kirk's ship without eclipsing it. Maybe a ship less than half the size of the Enterprise. Maybe they started to do that in "Charlie X" (the Antares) but the concept was still-born.

I think it would've also been interesting if the show would've shown the Enterprise discovering "lost colonies" on isolated worlds, that being settlements of humans or Vulcans or others that would be descendants of abandoned expeditions. It would be really interesting if these lost communities wound up having some relationship with the Klingons or Romulans. (a whole new dimension to "A Private Little War")

All that having been said, if you wanted to kill multiple birds with one stone, the best and most effective way to do it would be to place Uhura in charge while Kirk and Spock were away. Scott and Sulu hogged too much of the glory. And it would be interesting to see McCoy appointed temporarily by Komack to serve as XO while the Enterprise is sent on a special rescue mission. The role reversal between McCoy and Spock could be both interesting and amusing.

 

[Itisnotlogical]

A lot of times, it was too obvious when they were trying to make a point of something. Adding Chekov, a Russian TV good guy character at the height of the Cold War, wasn't so bad. Kirk's end-of-episode speeches (can't name any specifics, but it happens a few times) were not so cool.

 

[Warped9]

Back in the early to mid '70s David Gerrold wrote a book called The World Of Star Trek. I used to have a copy so long ago but can't for the life of me recall what happened to it. In it he covers similar territory as we've been discussing and from the perspective of just a few years rather than four decades. I wish I had it still to refer to.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I only realized this just the other day, but it's kinda sad that the white characters all got full full names pretty much out of the gate (James Kirk, Pavel Chekov, even Kevin Riley) but the non-white regulars were treated like the aliens, with only one name (Uhura and Sulu). This may seem overly PC, but I think that shows that, for all Trek's vaunted inclusiveness, it still viewed non-white humans as fundamentally "other." Par for the course in a late 60s show, I guess (though I, Spy was light years past Trek in the race relations department) but worth mentioning.

Pavel was used in what, The Way to Eden, the 20th episode of the last season? I don't think most viewers ever knew him as anyone but Chekov. I think you could argue that they were underdeveloped because they were not the primary stars of the show.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I only realized this just the other day, but it's kinda sad that the white characters all got full full names pretty much out of the gate (James Kirk, Pavel Chekov, even Kevin Riley) but the non-white regulars were treated like the aliens, with only one name (Uhura and Sulu). This may seem overly PC, but I think that shows that, for all Trek's vaunted inclusiveness, it still viewed non-white humans as fundamentally "other." Par for the course in a late 60s show, I guess (though I, Spy was light years past Trek in the race relations department) but worth mentioning.

Yes, this has bugged me for years. I don't think I noticed it, though; someone pointed it out to me.

It was actually eventually up to fans to invent full names for them, which were eventually "canonized."

Frankly, if you look at the background info that the producers came up with for the supporting characters it only emphasizes that they apparently did minimal research on, say, cultures and nations of Africa and Asia. Takei and/or Roddenberry concocted this after-the-fact story about "Sulu" having deliberately been chosen as a sort of "pan-asian" surname, but the reality seems to be that no one thought it important - for example - to find names for Takei's or Nichols' characters that actually represented the nations/cultures they supposedly represented.

 

[plynch]

The parallel Earths idea was candidly built into GR's pitch from the start. The idea was to utilize existing sets and props where possible to save on production costs. It was part of GR's appeal to make Star Trek attractive as series proposal. And it's not a bad pitch in principle since no one wants to spend more than they have to.

Yes. But they get old. K & S in danger on the _______ planet. (Nazi, Roman, Gangster, etc.) They got a bit run-of-the-mill there in S2. S3 is quirkier, its clunkers aside.

 

[BillJ]

.

In either case, one could argue that, in the 1960's context, the sexism and some of the hokey plot devices (such as a "parallel Earths", probably the worst of them being a tie between "Miri" and "The Omega Glory") are the expected risks you take when you embark on the pioneering new TV show that was ahead of its time. You have to break some eggs to make an omelet, as the saying goes. So, while I agree that the show did make some hilarious blunders, those blunders come with the territory. One of my favorite TOS outings was "Bread and Circuses", a "parallel Earth" ep done right.

It's funny, I love both The Omega Glory and Bread and Circuses but I have a far easier time making The Omega Glory work in my head. YMMV.

 

[scotpens]

A lot of times, it was too obvious when they were trying to make a point of something. Adding Chekov, a Russian TV good guy character at the height of the Cold War, wasn't so bad.

Chekov was originally supposed to be a cheeky, irreverent, mop-topped British type to capitalize on the success of the Monkees and draw younger fans to the show. Making him Russian was an afterthought. Considering the importance of the then-Soviet Union in early space exploration (first artificial satellite, first man in space, first spacewalk), it would have been nice if there had been a Russian character from the beginning.

And don't forget that The Man From UNCLE had a Russian good-guy spy two years before Star Trek.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Hanging on to Gene Coon wasn't an option at the time; too much personal crap coming to a head at the wrong time.

Didn't he go right to another show soon after, though?

Bringing in Fred Freiberger, however, was a definite mistake. Regardless of his resume, he just did not understand a show like Star Trek. Why Roddenberry didn't just promote Bob Justman to be the line producer will be one of the great mysteries of the universe, because that one act, while it might not have saved the show for a fourth season, at least would've provided some respectability for the third (for instance, "The Way To Eden" most likely would've kept the Joanna McCoy character, and "Spock's Brain" might've never even been written, never mind filmed).

If we can't have Coon in this fantasy, I would be fine with this as an alternate scenario.

And don't forget that The Man From UNCLE had a Russian good-guy spy two years before Star Trek.

And that I Spy had a black costar get equal billing well before Uhura started appearing as a recurring character.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

the existence of Number One in the pilot shows that equality was in the minds of some and it would have made TOS a better show.

It also shows that G.R. was pushing for a major role for his then-girlfriend.

Actually, at that time, she was his mistress.

And the character of Nurse Chapel is one of TOS's biggest stumblings, IMO. All she ever got to do was pine for the emotionally unavailable Spock, with no real progression, development or resolution. Not really Majel's fault, since that's almost all they ever gave her to play. But whenever I see one of Chapel's scenes in a rerun, it just seems like a major time drain to me. The Spock-Chapel thing is a recurring suplot that never goes anywhere. If you're going to write your girlfriend/mistress into a show as a recurring character, at least give her a decent part to play.

 

[Captain Robert April]

I dunno, I rather liked her bit in "Obsession", where she tries that head game on Ensign Garrovick...

 

[scotpens]

the existence of Number One in the pilot shows that equality was in the minds of some and it would have made TOS a better show.

It also shows that G.R. was pushing for a major role for his then-girlfriend.

Actually, at that time, she was his mistress.

To-may-to, to-mah-to.

 

[Pauln6]

And the character of Nurse Chapel is one of TOS's biggest stumblings, IMO. All she ever got to do was pine for the emotionally unavailable Spock, with no real progression, development or resolution. Not really Majel's fault, since that's almost all they ever gave her to play. But whenever I see one of Chapel's scenes in a rerun, it just seems like a major time drain to me. The Spock-Chapel thing is a recurring suplot that never goes anywhere. If you're going to write your girlfriend/mistress into a show as a recurring character, at least give her a decent part to play.

Agreed. Even in the establishing episode they make nothing of her scientific background. She could be trained in biology, astrobiology, paleobiology, and archaeology, any one of which would have benefitted landing parties in addition to her medical training.

In TMP, they made her the more scientific doctor (although she would have worked better as head of Life Sciences, which would have at least distinguished her skills set from McCoy) but the dynamic was lost when she declined to return for TWoK.

NuTrek has established her as a nurse too, instead of updating her properly and maybe making her a scientist who is drafted to be a nurse by McCoy. Being a nurse is fine - more power to nurses - but from a dramatic standpoint if you aren't prepared to send her on landing party duty she's will always be in McCoy's shadow and it's a BIG shadow.

This is exactly what I've tried to do in my little fan story - get Chapel down onto the planet to make use of her science credentials, examine some alien remains, and do some biological research, although I haven't written her scenes yet.

 

[Sky]

And the character of Nurse Chapel is one of TOS's biggest stumblings, IMO. All she ever got to do was pine for the emotionally unavailable Spock, with no real progression, development or resolution. Not really Majel's fault, since that's almost all they ever gave her to play. But whenever I see one of Chapel's scenes in a rerun, it just seems like a major time drain to me. The Spock-Chapel thing is a recurring suplot that never goes anywhere.

I don't know. Of course the character didn't really develop or go anywhere, but then again, which of the TOS 'minor' characters ever did? I still liked Chapel's scenes in Amok Time.

 

[Pauln6]

And the character of Nurse Chapel is one of TOS's biggest stumblings, IMO. All she ever got to do was pine for the emotionally unavailable Spock, with no real progression, development or resolution. Not really Majel's fault, since that's almost all they ever gave her to play. But whenever I see one of Chapel's scenes in a rerun, it just seems like a major time drain to me. The Spock-Chapel thing is a recurring suplot that never goes anywhere.

I don't know. Of course the character didn't really develop or go anywhere, but then again, which of the TOS 'minor' characters ever did? I still liked Chapel's scenes in Amok Time.

Not often but other minor characters did get off the ship more often than Chapel and were sometimes taken out of their comfort zone. I think she went down to a planet twice (once forcibly) and apart from pining, she makes Spock soup, makes children ice cream, uses a bit of psychology (indeed her finest moment in TOS), and houses Spock's consciousness (eww).

At least Uhura got to fight in an arena, vamp it up in the mirror universe, lead a security team, dupe some robots, and jury-rig her console.

 

[Gary7]

At least Uhura got to fight in an arena, vamp it up in the mirror universe, lead a security team, dupe some robots, and jury-rig her console.

Hehehee... good way of putting it! Chapel was mostly filler for McCoy. Could she have pulled off more involvement in the series? Not sure. I didn't really care for what she showed through the small part she played. Majel really shined as Lwaxana, though. But by then, she must've had some good solid coaching.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Majel really shined as Lwaxana, though. But by then, she must've had some good solid coaching.

I think it's more the writing of Chapel than Barrett's portrayal of her. I quite liked her as the unemotional Number One, she was very good as Lwaxana Troi, and she knocked it out of the park on her Babylon 5 guest spot. So I'd say she was always a pretty good actress.

 

[BolianAuthor]

A lot of folks think many TOS fans, particularly the so-called "purists" will excuse anything and refuse to accept TOS ever faltered.

Well no one can be as critical as a real fan, and so I invite other TOS fans to share what you think TOS got wrong.

Note: lets keep this in context. Saying TOS is inconsistent with what later series and film claim or establish can't fairly be considered a fault. I'm talking about something you feel was off within the series itself or a particular story.

Have fun. Anyone?

Only two things ever really bugged me about TOS, and still do, to a degree...

The most glaring for me, is the music. I cannot stand how the show was obsessed with recycling the same music over and over and over and over again... and sometimes the musical transitions were quite jarring, and not smooth or graceful at all. I applaud episodes like "Amok Time" starting out with scores that were pretty unique and different, but even that episode eventually recycled parts of standard TOS episode fare. I just wish there would have been more diversity and originality with the show's music.

The other thing is disliked, was how TOS depicted distance in space... how the ship was able to go literally across and beyond our galaxy, and quadrants seemed to be almost nothing, in terms of distance. I'm glad TNG fixed all of that, for the most part.

In terms of something I disliked in a particular episode... the implied rape scene where the guard "rapes" Uhura in "The Gamesters of Triskelion"... that REALLY bothered me a great deal, and still does.

 

[Warped9]

In terms of something I disliked in a particular episode... the implied rape scene where the guard "rapes" Uhura in "The Gamesters of Triskelion"... that REALLY bothered me a great deal, and still does.

I can see that, but it does fit in conceptually with the story of the implied mindset of the Providers and Uhura's drill thrall.