Where TOS stumbled....

[BolianAuthor]

^

That's true, but IMO, it was just too dark for TOS, let alone for TV of that era... I was surprised they showed it, to be honest. Again, just my own opinion.

One last thing that I would say REALLY bothered me about an episode, which is not as bad as the Uhura rape, was the behavior of the shuttle crew in "The Galileo Seven". That really got me raging, because one, these people are supposed to be not only trained and skilled Starfleet personnel, but good enough to be posted on the Enterprise.

I was absolutely appalled at how not only the shuttle officers treated Spock, but also that McCoy just went along with it... I mean, WTF??? McCoy is a SENIOR OFFICER... he should not only back up Spock, who IS the commanding officer in that situation, but should also have the basic maturity to act like a professional, and not act as childish as he did. The only person who ever defended Spock was Scotty, and he was also the only person in that episode other than Spock with any semblance of a professional demeanor.

I really wanted Spock to shoot all those crybabies, and it really made me mad that Starfleet officers would be allowed to act that way to their superior.

 

[Warped9]

^^ Uhura's attempted rape wasn't the first time for TOS. The evil Kirk tried the same thing with Janice Rand in "The Enemy Within" the previous season.

 

[BolianAuthor]

^

That's true, but I think what made the Uhura scene worse for me was the more inherently violent nature behind it... with Yeoman Rand, Kirk was just acting like "the guy who thinks that when a woman says no, she really means yes", but he wasn't inherently evil or bad... just aggressive and in the mood. The Thrall that raped Uhura was just being violent and mean. And the fact that Kirk and Chekov were so close but could not do anything to help made it all the worse.

 

[Gary7]

^ Notice how it affected you... doesn't that say something about what the episode achieved? A good show can make us curious, laugh, cry, rage, despair, inspired, etc...

 

[BolianAuthor]

^

Again, very true.

 

[Pauln6]

^ One last thing that I would say REALLY bothered me about an episode, which is not as bad as the Uhura rape, was the behavior of the shuttle crew in "The Galileo Seven". That really got me raging, because one, these people are supposed to be not only trained and skilled Starfleet personnel, but good enough to be posted on the Enterprise.

I was absolutely appalled at how not only the shuttle officers treated Spock, but also that McCoy just went along with it... I mean, WTF??? McCoy is a SENIOR OFFICER... he should not only back up Spock, who IS the commanding officer in that situation, but should also have the basic maturity to act like a professional, and not act as childish as he did. The only person who ever defended Spock was Scotty, and he was also the only person in that episode other than Spock with any semblance of a professional demeanor.

I really wanted Spock to shoot all those crybabies, and it really made me mad that Starfleet officers would be allowed to act that way to their superior.

More generally, I dislike the way officers often act unprofessionally in TOS, particularly the women. I know they need to inject a certain amount of tension into the proceedings and officers should not blindly follow orders but we have officers being blatantly offensive during diplomatic negotiations, hysterical shouting while on duty, and daring to say 'no' to your captain when he turns up drunk and in the mood for love.

To her credit, I think Yeoman Mears acted more professionally than the men in G7.

 

[scotpens]

The most glaring for me, is the music. I cannot stand how the show was obsessed with recycling the same music over and over and over and over again... and sometimes the musical transitions were quite jarring, and not smooth or graceful at all. I applaud episodes like “Amok Time” starting out with scores that were pretty unique and different, but even that episode eventually recycled parts of standard TOS episode fare. I just wish there would have been more diversity and originality with the show's music.

Every TV series of that era re-used the same music cues over and over. It wasn't an obsession, it was a matter of budget.

And Trek TOS did have tremendous diversity and originality in its music, employing some of the top Hollywood composers of the time -- especially when compared to the bland wallpaper music of the later Trek TV incarnations.

 

[Forbin]

The other thing is disliked, was how TOS depicted distance in space... how the ship was able to go literally across and beyond our galaxy, and quadrants seemed to be almost nothing, in terms of distance. I'm glad TNG fixed all of that, for the most part.

Now that's interesting, 'cause I see it exactly the opposite - TOS always managed to make me feel like they were waaaay out there, on their own, in the vast dark reaches. But TNG seemed like they were always travelling commercial spacelanes, only a few minutes away from the nearest rest stop. In one two-part episode they flew from Earth to Kronos to Romulus! That should be YEARS worth of travelling.

 

[Forbin]

The most glaring for me, is the music. I cannot stand how the show was obsessed with recycling the same music over and over and over and over again... and sometimes the musical transitions were quite jarring, and not smooth or graceful at all. I applaud episodes like “Amok Time” starting out with scores that were pretty unique and different, but even that episode eventually recycled parts of standard TOS episode fare. I just wish there would have been more diversity and originality with the show's music.

Every TV series of that era re-used the same music cues over and over. It wasn't an obsession, it was a matter of budget.

And Trek TOS did have tremendous diversity and originality in its music, employing some of the top Hollywood composers of the time -- especially when compared to the bland wallpaper music of the later Trek TV incarnations.

While I did find the re-use of certain cues worthy of a drinking game ("DA-daaaaaa" sting - drink a beer), there really wasn't a bit of TOS music that wasn't memorable. My favorite full-episode score is still the gorgeous "Is there in Truth..."

 

[JustKate]

^ One last thing that I would say REALLY bothered me about an episode, which is not as bad as the Uhura rape, was the behavior of the shuttle crew in "The Galileo Seven". That really got me raging, because one, these people are supposed to be not only trained and skilled Starfleet personnel, but good enough to be posted on the Enterprise.

I was absolutely appalled at how not only the shuttle officers treated Spock, but also that McCoy just went along with it... I mean, WTF??? McCoy is a SENIOR OFFICER... he should not only back up Spock, who IS the commanding officer in that situation, but should also have the basic maturity to act like a professional, and not act as childish as he did. The only person who ever defended Spock was Scotty, and he was also the only person in that episode other than Spock with any semblance of a professional demeanor.

I really wanted Spock to shoot all those crybabies, and it really made me mad that Starfleet officers would be allowed to act that way to their superior.

More generally, I dislike the way officers often act unprofessionally in TOS, particularly the women. I know they need to inject a certain amount of tension into the proceedings and officers should not blindly follow orders but we have officers being blatantly offensive during diplomatic negotiations, hysterical shouting while on duty, and daring to say 'no' to your captain when he turns up drunk and in the mood for love.

To her credit, I think Yeoman Mears acted more professionally than the men in G7.

I so so soooo agree (except for the last clause of the next to last sentence, of course ). Whenever people talk about how great the chemistry was between the Big Three on TOS, I'm like "What?" When they were sparring with each other, that was fine, but that entire McCoy-Spock dynamic just irritated the hell out of me. McCoy acted like a jerk to Spock a LOT. Then there'd be some big reveal scene and McCoy would realize he'd acted like a jerk. But then an episode or two later, he'd do exactly the same thing. Even as a little kid I found this irritating and immature. When an 11-year-old girl wants to tell an adult man to grow up, this is not a good sign.

 

[BillJ]

^^ Uhura's attempted rape wasn't the first time for TOS. The evil Kirk tried the same thing with Janice Rand in "The Enemy Within" the previous season.

I think Star Trek was a far darker show in general, far more than the current generation gives it credit for.

 

[BolianAuthor]

The other thing is disliked, was how TOS depicted distance in space... how the ship was able to go literally across and beyond our galaxy, and quadrants seemed to be almost nothing, in terms of distance. I'm glad TNG fixed all of that, for the most part.

Now that's interesting, 'cause I see it exactly the opposite - TOS always managed to make me feel like they were waaaay out there, on their own, in the vast dark reaches. But TNG seemed like they were always travelling commercial spacelanes, only a few minutes away from the nearest rest stop. In one two-part episode they flew from Earth to Kronos to Romulus! That should be YEARS worth of travelling.

But you see though... that is my point... by TNG's time, such distances WOULD be pretty routine... but the pioneers of the TOS age were the explorers who first explored those areas, so to THEM they should have been far greater and almost unreachable distances.

As for the music, aye, I'm sure not everybody will agree with me, but the OP asked us for our own opinions, and that is mine. I stand by it... I largely do not like the music in TOS.

The point about Yeoman Mears in "The Galileo Seven" is a good one, and I should have mentioned her as another one who was well-behaved. I still hate... yes, hate... the way those other men and even McCoy acted towards Spock in that episode... and you know what's more? If I had written that episode, I seriously would have had Spock put each and every one of them, McCoy included, on report, once they got back to the ship, that way McCoy could suffer the humiliation of knowing Kirk was forced to sign a negative report about his performance put forth by Spock. Yes, I would have done it, because IMO, the behavior was that bad.

It's the same reason I love Captain Jellico in TNG so much... yes, any individual is entitled to THINK whatever they want about their superiors... any given drill instructor or Captain can be either a friend or an asshole in the eyes of someone under them... but when you are given an order, you better damn well shut up, and follow it. End of story.

 

[BillJ]

But you see though... that is my point... by TNG's time, such distances WOULD be pretty routine... but the pioneers of the TOS age were the explorers who first explored those areas, so to THEM they should have been far greater and almost unreachable distances.

They would be routine trips, bit the distance and travel times should still be immense... even with the rescaled warp speeds TNG used.

 

[BolianAuthor]

They would be routine trips, bit the distance and travel times should still be immense... even with the rescaled warp speeds TNG used.

TNG warp engines don't just follow a recalibrated scale... they are actually more powerful, and capable of greater raw speed, which usually happens, when technology advances.

 

[BillJ]

They would be routine trips, bit the distance and travel times should still be immense... even with the rescaled warp speeds TNG used.

TNG warp engines don't just follow a recalibrated scale... they are actually more powerful, and capable of greater raw speed, which usually happens, when technology advances.

By rescaled I mean what each warp speed represents. In Star Trek warp two would be eight times the speed of light... in The Next Generation it would be thirty-two times the speed of light. So obviously they're more powerful. It still doesn't change the massive interstellar distances they cover at a drop of a hat.

 

[Harvey]

Every TV series of that era re-used the same music cues over and over. It wasn't an obsession, it was a matter of budget.

And Trek TOS did have tremendous diversity and originality in its music, employing some of the top Hollywood composers of the time -- especially when compared to the bland wallpaper music of the later Trek TV incarnations.

I understand the reasons for re-using music in 1960s television. But as much as I love the "Shore Leave" score, for example, the fact that a few cues from it are consistently re-used to underscore every comedic moment in the series until the second season (after that point, music from "The Trouble with Tribbles" would be used as well) is incredibly repetitive and annoying. In that sense, I think STAR TREK stumbled.

But at least it didn't fall flat on its face like much of the sonic wallpaper that afflicted the 24th Century spin-offs.

 

[MANT!]

True..dull and boring TOS's music wasn't...yes it was repeated, sometimes to the detriment of the story..most often not.. (like many other shows of the period, as an example, Outer Limits reused so much of it's themes..you can follow the progression of the story just by the musical cues) But,one of the bright spots in the third season was the music...

 

[Captain Robert April]

I didn't really have a problem with how McCoy treated Spock in G7, since a) McCoy's a senior officer, so he's got the rank to be able to address Spock on a more equal footing, and b) he's been dealing with Spock long enough that he's more or less earned the right to rag on him from time to time. Besides, McCoy's picking on Spock was to drive home the point that Spock's logical approach to the situation was failing miserably. Lt. Boma was just plain pissed off, and completely out of line (which is why both McCoy and Scotty shut his snotty ass down when he popped off with that line, "I'm tired of this machine!").

In short, McCoy had racked up enough brownie points to entitle him to pick on Spock. Boma hadn't.

 

[Forbin]

It's the same reason I love Captain Jellico in TNG so much... yes, any individual is entitled to THINK whatever they want about their superiors... any given drill instructor or Captain can be either a friend or an asshole in the eyes of someone under them... but when you are given an order, you better damn well shut up, and follow it. End of story.

On THAT we agree! Riker came across as a whiney bitch in that episode.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Like Jellico told Deanna early on, he didn't have time for a honeymoon with the crew, for everyone to get to know each other and get comfortable. Under less dangerous circumstances, I think everyone would've adjusted to a change in command much better and it wouldn't have become necessary for Riker to be relieved of duty.