Where does the Ring Ship fit into canon?

[Timo]

There is no episode where it would not be labeled USS on a similar display screen, as there are no such screens in other episodes.

And the Federation holds no monopoly for USS in Trek reality, regardless of this specific datapoint.

Berman is gone now. The USS remains.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tuskin38]

There is no episode where it would not be labeled USS on a similar display screen, as there are no such screens in other episodes.

And the Federation holds no monopoly for USS in Trek reality, regardless of this specific datapoint.

Berman is gone now. The USS remains.

Timo Saloniemi

No, no and no. The Columbia and Enterprise DO NOT have USS.

And there are plenty of episodes with the NX labelled on screen, and plenty of props, like the Dediciation Plaque and then you have Assignment Patches on their very uniforms!

The Enterprise is not USS, the screen is a mistake.

 

[Timo]

Umm, what? NX is not at odds with USS - the ship has both, just like Kirk's ship has NCC and USS both.

It doesn't matter what we call this thing: "mistake", "divine intervention", "frammistat". Nothing changes it being there, right in front of our eyes. And It's difficult to fathom why anybody should insist "it's not real", for no good in-universe reason whatsoever.

Is the USS/ISS on the Discovery hull a mistake when the t-shirts clearly spell out the name of the ship is just DISCO, without any prefix?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tuskin38]

Is the USS/ISS on the Discovery hull a mistake when the t-shirts clearly spell out the name of the ship is just DISCO, without any prefix?

That isn't the same thing at all. Discovery is a Federation Starship

There is more evidence against the USS Prefix for Enterprise then there is for it.

If it had a USS Prefix it would be on the dedication plaque and assignment patches on their uniforms.

 

[Timo]

Assignment patches are a thing unique to the 2150s. We cannot divine any rules regarding those, especially as we only ever see a single one in focus.

Dedication plaques in turn are all over the place no matter which century. There's no list of mandatory items to be included in any area, so that's a non-starter as well.

Really, what's the point? Somebody saying "it's a mistake" is neither here nor there, any more than somebody insisting "no, it's not a mistake, the mic boom was intended to be seen in that shot" would be. In-universe, the ship has a USS designation in certain contexts but not in others, exactly like the Raven later on. Or indeed exactly like Kirk's ship. (These "designation" or "registry" things are already a mouthful - of course the heroes abbreviate wherever they can!)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tuskin38]

In-universe, the ship has a USS designation in certain contexts but not in others

Nope

 

[Tenacity]

That was just an FX mistake, just like the 24th Century Steamrunners greeting the Enterprise in Stormfront Part 2.

Hardly a mistake, they needed a addition 22nd century starship in the distance and deliberately use the existing steamrunner. So, by on screen canon, there's a 22nd century design similar to the steamrunner.

 

[The Wormhole]

Plus, I guess if the Akira design can exist in the 22nd century, so too can the Steamrunner. Though it just makes 24th century ship designers look laughably nostalgic.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Remember ENT had the fake Starfleet ship Dauntless NX-01-A as a legit future Starfleet ship in "Azati Prime", fighting Sphere Builders who were flying a reconditioned Son'a collector.

 

[Timo]

Accidental nostalgia is pretty standard in weapons development - tumblehome warship hulls have made a brief return, say, as have certain small boat combat applications and designs. But simple continuity is also standard, and engineers persisting with a good thing would hardly be unexpected.

No doubt the ENT era Steamrunner lookalike has bronze-hued hull panels attached with screws, and a golden deflector in the middle of the blue-glowing area. And is of an arbitrarily different size. Otherwise, no reason why she should be drastically different-looking in order to qualify as a genuine pre-2150s design.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tuskin38]

The deflector is glowing blue.

 

[Timo]

So is that of the NX-01, at a distance.

The Steamrunner is a nice template for an early starship in that her warp nacelles are humungous compared to the "payload" part. The Intrepid seems to have bigger/clumsier engines than the Enterprise, both in proportion and (if we guesstimate based on the bridge shapes) in absolute terms...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Wormhole]

Remember ENT had the fake Starfleet ship Dauntless NX-01-A as a legit future Starfleet ship in "Azati Prime", fighting Sphere Builders who were flying a reconditioned Son'a collector.

The 26th century is a very cheap place.

 

[Timo]

...Or so full of 'em spatiotemporal sinkholes that seeing USS Kitchen Sink there is only to be expected.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[USS Triumphant]

The deflector is glowing blue.

There are grues lurking nearby.

 

[Tenacity]

If it had a USS Prefix it would be on the dedication plaque and assignment patches on their uniforms.

What leads you to believe that a ship's dedication plaque of a ship that actual has a prefix of USS would contain USS?

The NX-01 simply has the name Enterprise on the upper, with no SS or USS. The previous carrier USS Enterprise (now decommissioned) simply had the name Enterprise on it's fantail.

This (iirc) is typical. Now the previous carrier USS Enterprise did have USS Enterprise with the prefix on the forward section of the island, however this is atypical on naval vessels in general.

 

[Tuskin38]

What leads you to believe that a ship's dedication plaque of a ship that actual has a prefix of USS would contain USS?

Because every single Dedication plaque, as far as I know, in Star Trek history has included the Prefix.

 

[Timo]

But NX-01 specifically sits at the border between now and Trek, and is especially entitled to doing things the real way.

OTOH, by your argument, every ship in Star Trek history has had a prefix, so obviously NX-01 has it, too.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The dedication plaque of SSN-571 had "USS Nautilus" on it:

https://galtonsbox.com/2014/06/03/u-s-s-nautilus-ssn-571-a-photo-tour/
https://slowlorisblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/1-plaque.jpg

 

[Tim Thomason]

Eh, personal preference. Canon is silent on the issue, as it should be.

Perhaps the "USS" prefix, as used by Starfleet, was a mandate for ships when Admiral Gardner took over in 2154. Enterprise was re-listed in the records as a USS soon after, but it took years for people to start using the prefix, and they never bothered to repaint the hull or re-dedicate the ship.

Or maybe Enterprise is technically a "United States Ship" because of its development in Montana (and the USA still being a thing in 2154 according to another viewscreen also in Affliction). And the other six USS Enterprises are "United Space" or "United Star" ships, with United Space being some sort of designation of space shared between Federation members.