Spoilers Where does Boimler go from here?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Lower Decks' started by Oddish, Jul 26, 2021.

  1. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Commodore Commodore

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    Yes, I framed the requests as a joke upon the “no money” idea, with someone greedily making demands from a counselor they don’t need to pay either. But even if they were made politely with formal paperwork, I’m sure they would be quite difficult if not impossible to accomplish.

    Owning a personal ship would be no different than owning a yacht today you can’t possibly run on your own, as opposed to simply paying for a cruise from time to time. We’re basically saying that’s not a dream you can have unless you’ve decided to move outside the Federation. Even if credits exist for the purpose of expressing an “allowance”, they would not be something you could invest and accumulate towards a personal goal, and I’m sure that counseling (with a counselor) or relocation would be advised if that were an issue.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2021
  2. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Ok, thanks for clarifying its a joke. But to me, it never made sense that in a non-monetary system people would suddenly and greedily want everything and anything.
    This is more of a common misconception that people who WATCH Trek make because they don't live in such a setting (nor did they grow up in it) and make certain projections and assumptions that wouldn't even apply even if it was real life.

    Trek Humans (and most UFP civilizations) grew up in in a non-monetary setting to begin with and are happy not living 'extravagantly' (in fact, in a society without 'classes' and money, most people wouldn't have a need for things that are advertised for rich people in the present system)... therefore, its a way of life for them.

    For an average human in early 21st century who grew up in capitalism (that is if they are a classical example of system influencing them to be greedy, selfish and competitive like a lot of them behave, etc.), they might demand a lot of stuff in an unrealistic fashion if they suddenly found themselves in such a setting (but the large portion of the majority would likely describe just how futile those things are and try to get that person to find the things they'd actually be happy with) - which is why Humanity in real life would need a transitional period (of say 5 to 10 years - probably 2 to 5) into say a non-monetary system such as RBE/TVP to acclimate to the idea of no money and to understand how it would work - and during this period, you'd see the values of many people shifting with most of artificiality that Capitalism props up vanish into obscurity (I mean, look at how fast society changed overnight in the face of the pandemic... it shows we have the capacity for massive change at incredible speeds if there's a backing from those in power [in the present system] for it).

    Also, not everyone for example wants a yacht, a beach house, a mansion, etc. To me (and many others), those are incredibly stupid and wasteful (aka not important whatsoever).
    Trek humans and other UFP civilizations would likely have a similar view of those things - aka, unimportant for personal 'ownership' (also, why bother, when they can probably just have ACCESS to those things so they can USE them whenever they want to in the first place?).

    Besides, if you lived in UFP, you'd likely be able to go anywhere within UFP you wanted to without restrictions to live, explore, contribute, etc. (similar to EU - but without the actual need to do a 'job' to 'earn a living - but rather you'd probably use your skills - whatever they are - either way to improve yourself and learn more about the world you live in and contribute however you deemed fit).

    As such, I wouldn't be so sure it would be very difficult or impossible to get your own starship.

    You might not be able to get a full blown starship immediately, but something along the lines of a shuttlecraft or runabout to get you going is probably how it might be accomplished if you're starting out on your own.
    If you have a crew standing by, they might give you an older ship like someone mentioned.

    It would depend on the individual's needs - similar to how some people select a laptop today based on what you usually use it for.
    And on top of that, UFP as such would probably want you to have some knowledge of shuttle/ship operations so that you can conduct maintenance and repair in case the automated systems are not functional - after all, they wouldn't want to be responsible for a person just setting out into space with 0 knowledge of anything).

    I would also imagine that getting to a shuttle or a runabout would be far easier than owning a yacht today. For example... no money to get in the way for starters.
    The only thing I can think of is that you would be asked, is to finish some short courses in the local holodeck for training purposes and 3 to 6 months to about a year, you'd probably be able to get on that shuttle/runabout and go on your merry way once the individual who oversees these things checks over that your training is complete and that you've learned the fundamentals of ship operations.

    To be fair though, I would expect that most people in UFP would be exposed to relevant general education, critical thinking and problem solving... so by the time they mature, they would have the bare minimum in their grasp and would require minimal training on how to operate a shuttle/runabout - and in the 23rd and 24th century, it would be rather simple what with automation.

    Full fledged starships can come later if you're really set on it (and again, you will probably have to determine what you want to use it for to make it useful - many people today who think they want 'big things' end up regretting them and just downscale anyway)... and would you really want to live on a huge starship like a Galaxy class by yourself? Eh, maybe if I can program it with a holographic crew of my choice.
    Honestly, something the size of the Delta Flyer or La Serena (but better designed) would do me with upgradeability in mind.
    If I wanted a big ship, I'd probably share it with others - otherwise, it would seem like a massive waste of resources if it was just for me.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2021
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  3. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Commodore Commodore

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    Why would you think I have a misconception? It was obviously a no-money joke to have someone ask for the world then and there, so there is no need for a rebuttal. I’m not saying we can’t imagine how it works, but not everyone would agree with you that personal ownership beyond the justified rational need is unimportant today or in the 24th century.

    Besides, we don’t really know the details because, unfortunately, the writers tend to get around the issue rather than face it head on in economic terms. Disposable timelines and end-of-the-world scenarios seem to be what the audience is looking for (or something). I do believe there are differences between Earth and the Federation and between the Federation and allied planets. It’s a big galaxy and people have options.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2021
  4. oldtrekkie

    oldtrekkie Captain Red Shirt

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    BTW, do we know what happened to Riker's transporter twin, eventually (I suppose they liberated him from the Cardassian prison)?
     
  5. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Officially, we are probably meant to think Thomas died in the Cardassian labor camp. We never saw him again after he was sent there.

    In the novelverse....

    Thomas turns up, alive, having joined a Starfleet special ops team called 'Active Four'
     
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  6. Commander Troi

    Commander Troi Quoter of Quotes Premium Member

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    This tickled my weary brain and I recalled there was actually a TNG episode about exactly this: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/The_Neutral_Zone_(episode)
     
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  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Or the audience is willing to pay for it to indicate demand.

    I would hope so.
     
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  8. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    If you freeze frame the scene, it's latinum.
     
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  9. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Commodore Commodore

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    It would honestly be terrible if Mariner somehow ended up as captain first.
     
  10. ThreeEdgedSword

    ThreeEdgedSword Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I like the idea of Mariner ending up getting promoted first, while Boimler is the one obsessed with his promotion. It would feel very LD to me.
     
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  11. Oddish

    Oddish Rear Admiral Commodore

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    I don't think either of them will be. If they wanted Boimler to be a JG, they wouldn't have demoted him. And Mariner has been there done that.
     
  12. ThreeEdgedSword

    ThreeEdgedSword Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Oh, any(permanent) promotions will have to come at the end of the show, because the show is about those four being friends and having adventures together.
     
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  13. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Commodore Commodore

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    They could all be junior grade lieutenants and then find out that there's no extra rooms.
     
  14. Oddish

    Oddish Rear Admiral Commodore

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    True. But given how utterly ridiculous it was that they busted Boimler to ensign for no good reason whatsoever, I think that they're bound and determined that the group will remain ensigns for the duration of the series. If they survive, they'll get promoted and go their seperate ways in the series finale, a la "What You Leave Behind".
     
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  15. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Commodore Commodore

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    Let's be honest, Boimler is grateful Riker didn't disintegrate him like the Up the Long Lader clone.
     
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  16. Oddish

    Oddish Rear Admiral Commodore

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    Or try to re-fuse them, possibly creating a third Boimler clone, who would then be promoted to ○○ lieutenant and be posted to the Enterprise E.
     
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  17. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I demand an Animal House-style ending.
     
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