Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Trekboy1993, Jan 2, 2018.
Officially? Not that I am aware. Someone with greater knowledge might have the answer to that.
As I remember, the USA tends to be rather forgiving. At least if you consider the way ex-confederates were treated, as well as many formerly hostiles Indians.
Of course, in Trek the question should be moot: instead of forgiving, the Federation cures. There's no hatred towards the likes of Lenore Karidian or Garth of Izar, who instead get medical care for their murderous urges. And Kirk reins in his hatred for Anton Karidian, too, apparently faithful to the party line that revenge or even punishment is not part of the modern justice system, regardless of Kirk's own murderous desires.
Would Starfleet be in a position to prosecute the Maquis? It had a case against Paris, and supposedly Chakotay was active Starfleet when defecting, too; Torres had left the organization before joining the cause. Starfleet believes in punishment, but it can only punish its own - even if it seems to be the sole organization handling the actual thief-taking even for the civilian world.
I rather doubt the State would wish to abandon its pious principles of non-punishment for the sakes of this insignificant bunch of failed rebels. A quick phaser blast behind a corner, perhaps, but no public trial (medical examination, whatever) and certainly no verdict of guilty (ill).
Please, I don't know it the French government ever did, but the French people as a whole brag heavily about the resistance,. Insisting that they were the equal in the war's victory with the forces of the US, Britain and Russia during the war.
They are the heroes of the French people.
Why adopt a system that (let's face it) simply doesn't work?
There are a few reasons as to why Communism fialed, and I will address some of the more prominate reasons. First of all, anyone who is familiar with basic fabric of political science will tell you that Communism looks good on paper, but fails in practice. I agree with that sentiment to a point. The reasons that the political ideals of Communism failed are because of human greed, corruption, and the fact that they allowed any form of currency to exist. If a Communist State could remove currency from their society, it may have a much better chance of succeeding. However, that is only part of the problem. An ideal utopian world could only exist if you can find a way to remove the drive for the accumulation of wealth and the human instinct of greed. I believe that it might be attainable, but only if humanity can find a way to unite and to end certain conditions within society that continue to drive us apart and to revert back to basic social human needs, such as wealth. If humanity could end war, famine, poverty and find a way to remove most ailments and diseases from society, then on an economic level, find a way to remove currency, then the whole basic and fundamental needs that drive humanity would be changed. We could in effect become a society that is united and can place many of our differences aside and try to work towards bettering ourselves and humanity. There would no longer be a need for wealth, as it would no longer matter. Instead of focusing all of our energy on accumulating wealth, we could all work to better society as a whole. There are of course several other points and issues to address in this process, which would take weeks to explain and lifetimes to implement, but I have tried to present the core issues here.
Yesterday, Tenacity, I forgot to clarify a very important point in my post but your comment requires me to bring it. Indeed, we must not confuse :
- the French Resistance, whose members (citizens from all levels of society who refused the Occupation and fought for their rights & their belongings / members of the army who used & shared their experience to guide civilians in their fights) were receiving orders and means to intervene on the ground (money/food and ammunitions) from London by devious means (=clandestine networks & black market network), where Général de Gaulle and his team of advisors (ranked soldiers & civilians) had fled right from 1940. Yes, these people were considered, treated and celebrated as heroes... even today, fortunately!
- the Maquis,whose members hadn't a faultless profile (often, highwaymen, convicts, fired soldiers and/or deserters), who used to lead spectacular - and quite effective in their scope - actions, even if they acted more by pecuniary interest or at least for what such any particular action could bring them than a fight for freedom against the oppressors. Plus, they mainly acted outside orders and recommendations given by Général de Gaulle/his team and Résistants who worked on sites, what sometimes made difficult some operations. Indeed, it is evident that,when there is no exchange between the 2 sections (French Résistance & Maquis), it complicates the matter, right?!
In short, even if fighting in the hope to gain something in return isn't a big deal (and as I said, their attacks against the German occupant were pretty effective), please, do not compare them to the heroes, men & women, who fought tooth and nail, without any ulterior motive, in the Resistance. It would be really insulting for these last ones!
-> so, if Rick Berman had done his research properly, he would have used the word of "Resistance" instead of "Maquis" in Star Trek: Voyager because overall, Chakotay and his friends had fair & nobles motives (cf to the other sci-fi series, "V", from Kenneth Johnson, where the word of "heroism" is associated to "Resistance fighters"). -> the Maquis is too often with the robbers of the highway, lawless.
Ah man, now I have to watch V again. Willie is so adorkable.
I would bet most of them would take long long vacation.
Janeway would live in SF, Chakotay would probably go to DS9, Seven would either join Janeway in SF or live somewhere where she can explore nature on Earth; experience all of the extreme climates of the planet. She would live by Mount Rushmore.
Tuvok would live in SF with his family getting treatment for his syndrome.
Kim would stay with his family for a little bit and head back on to space.
The Doctor would be decommissioned, unless he can prove he's sentient. If he somehow could, I would guess he would go to Jupiter.
B'Elanna would take her kid and head off to outpost Deep Space Nine to join Chakotay.
As regards the use of the term "Maquis", it long predates the WWII resistance in all its byzantine branches and forms. It is a fairly generic word to use for any resistance movement, be it local or widespread, funded and supplied by foreign powers or self-sufficient, revered or vilified.
What forms the Maquis movement of Star Trek took is left vague. It never dealt with occupation but rarely operated outside its "home turf"; it involved secessionists and loyalists in an unknown mix; it received aid from the outside but on occasion shunned it. Just like the conflict at Bajor, the one at the DMZ was painted in optimally fuzzy colors so that the writers and the audiences could project whatever they wished onto the canvas; the picture formed was the sum total of weekly varying vistas, and was left incomplete in the end.
In general, passions about resistance groups are unfounded. Resistance, more than any other form of warfare, is the art of the propaganda fight - and in order to rule that battlefield, one also has to win one's military campaign and ensure the supremacy of one's own history writers. Losers are forgotten or vilified, depending. And since no resistance movement in known history has actually won a fight on its own, even the victorious history writers have their writings censored by greater powers in the end.
It's futile to claim that the Resistance would have a better track record than the Maquis, say - the former had its share of monsters as well. De Gaulle could well be counted among them, except, you know, he won. Oh, well. At least the French had it easy dramatically speaking, compared with the almost literally byzantine nature of Balkan guerilla fighting; Star Trek just simplifies matters further for the purposes of Hollywood. And still ends up with a delightful mess where extremists like Eddington pursue selfish goals while moderatists like Chakotay or Torres dodge and weave between ideologies but resort to atrocities when necessary, and psychopaths like Suder just plain have fun.
...Just like in the real world, except these Maquis never were occupied!
The original series was - and still is - the best. Willie (Robert Englund) was adorable and his relationship with Harmony was so cute. :-D
And the sequence when Diana ate de bird with relish... , was much more impressive than the one where Tom's face and body were transformed slowly but surely in alien then in lezard, in Threshold.
I like your idea about Seven, working on her own to complete her knowledge about humans and what surrounded them. Same about the Doctor, being immobilized physically, intellectually and professionally, waiting to prove his sentienty and the fact that he can be useful to Starfleet.
As for Harry Kim, maybe I'm cruel but I don't see him surviving one of his new missions (not necessarely in a near future, of course!). I mean, yes he is smart & courageous but I think too that his relationship with Tom Paris, led him to be too more confident (about his abilities) but alas, too less cautious of what surrounded him (about people & situations). He will possibly want to be of the same calibre than his illustrious mentor, Cpt Kathryn Janeway, but even her know when to stop and not to tempt fate.
And then, his future in Starfleet may not be as smooth as it was on Voyager. Indeed, some of his commanding officers could be less sympathetic to Harry's desire to emancipation, what could frustrate him to the point of deciding to leave the military organization and stand on his own... .
encouraging to let him take initiatives
The Relaunch novels answers this, but as I've said countless times, I don't like those.
Here's my head-canon so far:
Chakotay became captain of a Starfleet archeology ship, that studied alien artifacts around the galaxy.
Seven got a job as a science officer on DS9, where she fit right in with all the misfits. Ezri Dax was her counselor and friend, as the two both know something about past lives and identity crises. Seven also did a lot of science work with the "Jack Pack," with whom she had a lot in common, and became close friends with Sarina Douglass (the parallels between those two are almost uncanny).
Tom got a piloting job that involved a satisfying amount of tricks and danger, while still being close to home, which for him and B'Elanna was some colony or what-not. I don't see B'Elanna becoming a permanent housewife, so I presume she worked as an engineer at some place near home.
The EMH went to Jupiter Station and got to know his "father" and "sister" (Doc Zimmerman and Haley).
Naomi Wildman lived with her parens on Ktaris for a while, but then went into Starfleet Academy.
Icheb went straight to Starfleet Academy as soon as Voyager got home. I head-canon that he wound up in the medical field, wishing to compensate for all the times he was used as a weapon growing up.
Lt. Ayala and Ensign Jenkins got married (I head-canon that Ayala is a widower) and lived with his two sons and any future kids the pair would have (Ayala and Jenkins, not the sons). Where they lived, I have no idea.
Tuvok is the only character whose Pocket Books fate sits well with me. I love the idea of him serving on the U.S.S. Titan under Captain William Riker, so that's still true in my head universe.
And Gerron wound up aboard the U.S.S. Oberon, because I'll need some recurring characters with intimate knowledge of the canon ships/stations we know for info-dump reasons.
My head canon is that Tom and B'Elanna ended up designing new ships and shuttles for Starfleet.
I like that one!
I've just realized a major flaw in my idea for Seven of Nine; she hates crowds. Maybe DS9 isn't so good for her after all. But, I still really want to think that Ezri is her counselor and they are good friends.
I really want to think that Seven and Chak stayed together and fell deeper in love but, alas... minority again. Meh.
Even though I haven't seen DS9 your idea does sound pretty decent (and/or plausible), Lizard.
I doubt Chakotay would return to Starfleet, I would think he would go to DS9, as a civilian, to find what's left of his Maquis mates. He was never represented as a "Starfleet" kind of guy.
And neither was B'Elanna. Even in the later seasons of Voyager Janeway never gave them appropriate Starfleet ranks; was it procedural or they chose not be Starfleet?
But, Chakotay and B'Elanna both attended Starfleet Academy before the Maquis. Chakotay was a Starfleet officer who left due to the Maquis controversy. Both had ambitions with Starfleet, at least once upon a time. That said, it's not far-fetched that one or both would decide they'd had enough of Starfleet for various reasons after that seven-year journey.
I have to disagree. Chakotay had no problems to become Starfleet again when his crew joined Voyager and after seven years of duty on Voyager, I do think that he could go for a continued career in Starfleet.
The same for B'Elanna who did seem to enjoy being Chief Engineer on a Federation Starship.
As for the "Maquis ranks", I never understood that concept. If Janeway wanted a Starfleet crew, then all of them, including Kes, Neelix and Later Seven should have had Starfleet uniforms and proper ranks.
In my head, after Voyager returns home:
Janeway takes up a post at Starfleet Headquarters, lives in San Francisco with her dogs.
Chakotay returns to the former DMZ to help rebuild after the Dominion War and ultimately becomes involved in the regions bid for autonomy, which is successful and becomes an independent 'nation state'.
Tuvok returned home, where he underwent treatment for his condition, then returned to active duty. He was promoted to Commander and became the new First Officer onboard Voyager under Captain Erika Benteen.
Paris retired from Starfleet to be a stay-at-home dad, living on Earth.
Torres joined the S.C.E. as a consultant as she lived with her husband and daughter.
Kim took a posting on a deep space explorer.
EMH took a posting at Starfleet Medical.
Seven was extensively debriefed by Starfleet before joining an elite R&D team drawing in the best and brightest from across the Federation.
Neelix married and fathered a couple of children, whilst he worked to bring together several of the races near the colony, seeking to form his very own "Federation". He went on to serve as it's leader and saw his vision expand to include over twenty members before his death.
Kes returned to her homeworld, where she gathered up her people onboard a flotilla of ships and propelled them to the Alpha Quadrant, where they became a protectorate of the Federation as they helped them resettle. The effort used up all her energy and she dispersed into the cosmos, not before bringing together all the light that had once been inside her and gave 'birth' to an Ocampa named Linnis.
1) If I remember, only Chakotay was a Starfleet officer with the rank of Lt Comm, while B'Elena Torres left quite quickly the Academy because she didn't stand protocols and rules anymore,
2) Even if both were ready to wear the Starfleet uniforms again, would Starfleet be ready to accept them again given their pedigree (their past with the Maquis, as
prominent actors, furthermore)?!
3) What will happen if events are repeated and the Federation of the Planets (or what it will become after the Dominion War) makes the wrong choice AGAIN, in
supporting and providing assistance (via its forced army, Starfleet*) to aliens people, who decide finally to conquer planets and peoples, because they need more surface and handlers?
-> * do you trully think that Chakotay & B'Elena would obey, in executing their orders ungrudgingly, knowing that in doing that, they would complicit in helping the enemy? I tell you,at the risk of alienating the Federation and Starfleet against them AGAIN with the risk it would generate for them, they would help the victims even if it meant diverting Starfleet equipment & some members of the crew.
IF they did otherwise, so what made the spirit of their characters would have been definitively destroyed.
Nah, I see Chakotay & B'Elena rather seek a peaceful family life for her and wantingto make himself useful to his people & planet for him.
Separate names with a comma.