Where did Spock go?

[3D Master]

Sure, we all have our views. But... in fiction, things can and will change, especially after 40 years. It isn't automatically better or worse for it.

All that's happened here is some fans weren't given what they wanted, which they were never entitled to or owed to begin with. To listen to 3D Master and Hyperbole9 overstating things while patting each other on the back like nodding dogs, you'd think there was a real problem beyond their own personal disappointment.

There ain't. Star Trek moved on, did something new, which it's allowed to do.

You're wrong. Because if it did something that I didn't want, but was still good, I would say so. However, this movie is a plot-hole ridden pile of shit, that stabs a stake through the heart of Star Trek several times over.

It is a level of ineptitude and outright disdain for the source material that is horrible in its existence.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Kirk is Kirk.

Except when he's Gary Mitchell, which is essentially who Pine was playing.

I'm not suggesting that the creators had Gary in mind when they wrote Kirk, just that the rather standard-issue charming bad boy depicted by Pine has more in common with Mitchell than with the Kirk of TOS, particularly of S1 TOS. Pine's Kirk is a fairly decent back-extrapolation from the Kirk of TWoK but there are more than one way to arrive at that kind of outlook in mid-life.

 

[Joker]

You're wrong.

Yeah, no hyperbole or weirdorage here:

...this movie is a plot-hole ridden pile of shit, that stabs a stake through the heart of Star Trek several times over.

It is a level of ineptitude and outright disdain for the source material that is horrible in its existence.

 

[3D Master]

You're wrong.

Yeah, no hyperbole or weirdorage here:

...this movie is a plot-hole ridden pile of shit, that stabs a stake through the heart of Star Trek several times over.

It is a level of ineptitude and outright disdain for the source material that is horrible in its existence.

Nope, no hyperbole whatsoever, that's the horrifying part of it.

 

[xortex]

I couldn't watch transformers the other night. It sucked the air right out of my room. One has to beware of things that seem right 'cause very often they're not.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

All that's happened here is some fans weren't given what they wanted, which they were never entitled to or owed to begin with...Star Trek moved on, did something new, which it's allowed to do.

That's right, and it's a good thing.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I'm not suggesting that the creators had Gary in mind when they wrote Kirk, just that the rather standard-issue charming bad boy depicted by Pine has more in common with Mitchell than with the Kirk of TOS, particularly of S1 TOS.

This is true.

Pine's Kirk is a fairly decent back-extrapolation from the Kirk of TWoK but there are more than one way to arrive at that kind of outlook in mid-life.

This is also true.

 

[Joker]

... this movie is a plot-hole ridden pile of shit, that stabs a stake through the heart of Star Trek several times over.

It is a level of ineptitude and outright disdain for the source material that is horrible in its existence.

Nope, no hyperbole whatsoever,

 

[Brutal Strudel]

I'm not suggesting that the creators had Gary in mind when they wrote Kirk, just that the rather standard-issue charming bad boy depicted by Pine has more in common with Mitchell than with the Kirk of TOS, particularly of S1 TOS.

This is true.

Pine's Kirk is a fairly decent back-extrapolation from the Kirk of TWoK but there are more than one way to arrive at that kind of outlook in mid-life.

This is also true.

Of course, when one takes into account that Shatner's Kirk grew up in a completely different environment than Pine's, those kind of differences make sense. In one of the deleted scenes, George Jr. tells us that Kirk was a straight-A good boy right up to when he "steals" his father's car and destroys it.

 

[Ronald Held]

I still cannot see Kirk lasting 3 years at Academy with his attitude, no matter how intelligent he was.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Kirk is Kirk.

Except when he's Gary Mitchell, which is essentially who Pine was playing.

I'm not suggesting that the creators had Gary in mind when they wrote Kirk, just that the rather standard-issue charming bad boy depicted by Pine has more in common with Mitchell than with the Kirk of TOS, particularly of S1 TOS.

Interesting to see what Gary turns out to be like in this universe...

 

[Captain Robert April]

A little something that occurred to me while watching a documentary on the Air Force Academy the other night:

Military academies are four-year programs, period.

They're not like civilian colleges where you can just rack up the credit hours and somehow do it in three years. Hell, cadets don't have any reasonable amount of time to do the normal workload (it's a part of teaching them time management and how to perform under intense pressure), let alone rack up any appreciable number of extra credits.

In other words, there is no such thing as finishing the program early! The only way you leave before those four years is you either quit or are expelled.

People's Exhibit #47 of how JJ & Co. don't have a clue about what they're doing.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Gene Rodenberry spent years telling everyone and anyone that "Starfleet isn't the military!". He even had militaristic jargon cut from novels.
Clearly he was wrong, but it's easy enough to believe the pseudo-military of the future operates on differing principles to the armies of today.
Today's armies break people down and rebuild them all the identically. Star Trek's future is different - it embraces people's differences as strengths. The TOS crew weren't G.I. Joes, nor have any Trek crews ever been.

 

[Nerys Myk]

A little something that occurred to me while watching a documentary on the Air Force Academy the other night:

Military academies are four-year programs, period.

They're not like civilian colleges where you can just rack up the credit hours and somehow do it in three years. Hell, cadets don't have any reasonable amount of time to do the normal workload (it's a part of teaching them time management and how to perform under intense pressure), let alone rack up any appreciable number of extra credits.

In other words, there is no such thing as finishing the program early! The only way you leave before those four years is you either quit or are expelled.

People's Exhibit #47 of how JJ & Co. don't have a clue about what they're doing.

It only proves that the modern US Military requires a four year program without variation. it says nothing about what a future program may or my not require. That Starfleet is a note for note duplicate of the US Military is not evident

Accuarcy in fictional militaries is often hit or miss, be it Hogans Heroes, MASH,Combat or Star Trek. The need of the story will usually trump reality. I've heard it said that Kirk was too young to be in command of a ship like the Enterprise in TOS. That in reality the ship should have an older more experienced commander. That didn't fit with Roddenberry's vision (which changed by TNG) so we got a guy in his early thirties. We gonna say its People's exibit # 22 that GR got it wrong?

My dad, a 25 year veteran of the USAF (that's him in my avatar) used to laugh his head off at the inaccurate TV and movie versions of Military life. ( when it didn't piss him off) Star Trek was no exception, in fact I think he used to complain about it more than others. Probably because I liked it so much.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Clearly he was wrong, but it's easy enough to believe the pseudo-military of the future operates on differing principles to the armies of today.

He couldn't be "wrong," because Starfleet doesn't exist. He was being inconsistent, which is quite another thing - but he was making this stuff up, he was the final authority on it while he was alive, and if he chose to be inconsistent that was his call. People can disagree about the importance of consistency and about how much to privilege the contradictions in Trek that they like over the contradictions that they dislike, but calling Roddenberry "wrong" is trivial and meaningless.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Forced Mind Meld?

Clearly he was wrong, but it's easy enough to believe the pseudo-military of the future operates on differing principles to the armies of today.

He couldn't be "wrong," because Starfleet doesn't exist. He was being inconsistent, which is quite another thing - but he was making this stuff up, he was the final authority on it while he was alive, and if he chose to be inconsistent that was his call. People can disagree about the importance of consistency and about how much to privilege the contradictions in Trek that they like over the contradictions that they dislike, but calling Roddenberry "wrong" is trivial and meaningless.

I didn't say GR was wrong because he "violated canon" or anything like that, but because that particular decree didn't make much sense. The ship was armed to the teeth, for starters.

And whenever there's a war on in Star Trek, it's Starfleet that fights it.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Kirk is Kirk.

Except when he's Gary Mitchell, which is essentially who Pine was playing.

I'm not suggesting that the creators had Gary in mind when they wrote Kirk, just that the rather standard-issue charming bad boy depicted by Pine has more in common with Mitchell than with the Kirk of TOS, particularly of S1 TOS.

Interesting to see what Gary turns out to be like in this universe...

Unless something happened to shunt him on another path, probably a lot like he was in the original universe, which is to say a lot like Pine's Kirk, only with stronger esper ability.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Except when he's Gary Mitchell, which is essentially who Pine was playing.

I'm not suggesting that the creators had Gary in mind when they wrote Kirk, just that the rather standard-issue charming bad boy depicted by Pine has more in common with Mitchell than with the Kirk of TOS, particularly of S1 TOS.

Interesting to see what Gary turns out to be like in this universe...

Unless something happened to shunt him on another path, probably a lot like he was in the original universe, which is to say a lot like Pine's Kirk, only with stronger esper ability.

In this universe he'd never be Kirk's friend, because Kirk would take all the good-looking girls.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Maybe "Cupcake" was Gary?

And who's to say Kirk wasn't as much of a horndog in the original universe as in this one?

For that matter, have any of the novels dealt with exactly how Kirk and Gary first met? For all we know, it could have been just like this.

 

[Nerys Myk]

We know Gary met Kirk at the academy. The upper classmen warned him about Lt. Kirk.