Where are we right now??

[T'Girl]

But...they are representing the old characters.

No they're not. It was made clear that they experienced different life events, owing to Nero arrival, resulting in different people.

[Chris Pine] doesn't disrespect the character of Jim Kirk with his new interpretation of him.

Name just once "old" Kirk open fire on a defenseless enemy ship, because the Captain refused to surrender. Oh, and trying to drag Kirk over the side of a cliff doesn't qualify as "defenseless."

 

[cooleddie74]

But...they are representing the old characters.

No they're not. It was made clear that they experienced different life events, owing to Nero arrival, resulting in different people.

[Chris Pine] doesn't disrespect the character of Jim Kirk with his new interpretation of him.

Name just once "old" Kirk open fire on a defenseless enemy ship, because the Captain refused to surrender. Oh, and trying to drag Kirk over the side of a cliff doesn't qualify as "defenseless."

Well, of course I don't mean they are literally blow for blow the exact, precise same men and women. Nero's impact on the timeline made sure of that. But they are new actors playing the same characters, albeit with different life experiences after 2233. But that's to be expected since Kirk in the new timeline grew up without a positive father figure...he's more of an angry and cocksure fellow than he was in the original timeline. Quicker on the trigger because he's no doubt more cynical because of his rougher upbringing. I can swallow nuKirk because of those facts. He doesn't bother me in the least. The same might happen to any one of us if someone changed our past histories in a negative fashion.

 

[xortex]

The timeline is GR's Trek. J.J. made it very clear that the original reality has been changed and altered which means Kirk's future is taking place in a parallel dimension intact but seperate and different from AU Kirk's reality. This new timeline is J.J. Trek and this new character named Kirk is J.J.'s character as well. The OU Kirk exists in another universe or reality.

So far they got Kirk locked in V'ger, stuck in the nexus and now trapped in another timeline reality. Thankfully, GR's gone, for them that is. Turns out Spock was a Romulan traitor all along and sold out his own universe.

 

[cooleddie74]

Parallel timeline. Not dimension. In TREK there's generally considered to be a conceptual difference between the two. But yes, you're very correct in that the new timeline operates independent of and separate from the William Shatner/TOS timeline. Both exist simultaneously, which is part of what I and others have been trying to tell YWF. 39 years' worth of Prime TREK wasn't simply disregarded, chucked out the window and erased from existence. All the old TREK still exists in its own separate timeline. So no harm, no foul. No real reason to complain when you take the time to really think about it.

 

[xortex]

Parallel timeline. Not dimension. In TREK there's generally considered to be a conceptual difference between the two. But yes, you're very correct in that the new timeline operates independent of and separate from the William Shatner/TOS timeline. Both exist simultaneously, which is part of what I and others have been trying to tell YWF. 39 years' worth of Prime TREK wasn't simply disregarded, chucked out the window and erased from existence. All the old TREK still exists in its own separate timeline. So no harm, no foul. No real reason to complain when you take the time to really think about it.

So Kirk is gonna do better in this timeline than TOS? I'm waiting for Khan to take on the Talosians if they make it a parody even if I'm the only one laughing out loud in the theater.

 

[cooleddie74]

Parallel timeline. Not dimension. In TREK there's generally considered to be a conceptual difference between the two. But yes, you're very correct in that the new timeline operates independent of and separate from the William Shatner/TOS timeline. Both exist simultaneously, which is part of what I and others have been trying to tell YWF. 39 years' worth of Prime TREK wasn't simply disregarded, chucked out the window and erased from existence. All the old TREK still exists in its own separate timeline. So no harm, no foul. No real reason to complain when you take the time to really think about it.

So Kirk is gonna do better in this timeline than TOS?

What's your definiton of "better"? Explain. Are you talking about having a more successful Starfleet career? Having a family this time around? Being an even more skilled soldier, diplomat and explorer than his Prime self? Managing to avoid getting killed?

I think the new writing teams will make those decisions...it's all up to them. If they want nuKirk to outshine Kirk Prime in some arena of career or private life then they'll have every right to write those experiences into his character. It's no longer in our hands. It never was, really. James Kirk has always been the sum total of what screenwriters from 1965 to 1994 and now 2009-2012 have allowed him to be. He's not "our" character to change the way we see fit.

 

[xortex]

Parallel timeline. Not dimension. In TREK there's generally considered to be a conceptual difference between the two. But yes, you're very correct in that the new timeline operates independent of and separate from the William Shatner/TOS timeline. Both exist simultaneously, which is part of what I and others have been trying to tell YWF. 39 years' worth of Prime TREK wasn't simply disregarded, chucked out the window and erased from existence. All the old TREK still exists in its own separate timeline. So no harm, no foul. No real reason to complain when you take the time to really think about it.

So Kirk is gonna do better in this timeline than TOS?

What's your definiton of "better"? Explain. Are you talking about having a more successful Starfleet career? Having a family this time around? Being an even more skilled soldier, diplomat and explorer than his Prime self? Managing to avoid getting killed?

I think the new writing teams will make those decisions...it's all up to them. If they want nuKirk to outshine Kirk Prime in some arena of career or private life then they'll have every right to write those experiences into his character. It's no longer in our hands. It never was, really.

Oop. there's where you're wrong. It is in our hands. the money that you give the ticket guy at the movies.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

[URL="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0704270/"]Spock

: You're assuming that Nero knows how events are predicted to unfold. The contrary, Nero's very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the U.S.S. Kelvin, culminating in the events of today, thereby creating an entire new chain of incidents that cannot be anticipated by either party.
Lt. Nyota Uhura: An alternate reality.
Spock: Precisely. Whatever our lives might have been, if the time continuum was disrupted, our destinies have changed.

[/URL]

You know people can bitch all they like about this but it is NOTHING compared to the bitching we would have gotten if it had been set in the TOS timeline with no deviations. Every canon fibre out of place would have been 1000 threads of bitching.

 

[cooleddie74]

So Kirk is gonna do better in this timeline than TOS?

What's your definiton of "better"? Explain. Are you talking about having a more successful Starfleet career? Having a family this time around? Being an even more skilled soldier, diplomat and explorer than his Prime self? Managing to avoid getting killed?

I think the new writing teams will make those decisions...it's all up to them. If they want nuKirk to outshine Kirk Prime in some arena of career or private life then they'll have every right to write those experiences into his character. It's no longer in our hands. It never was, really.

Oop. there's where you're wrong. It is in our hands. the money that you give the ticket guy at the movies.

Which is your choice. If you choose to huff, puff and throw a fit about nuTrek because you don't agree with or like it then you can make the conscious decision not to see it. More power to you. I support your freedom to make that choice.

But when I said "not in our hands" I meant the character himself, not our reactions to him. Just wanted to stress that.

 

[xortex]

He should have made him J.J Adams from Forbidden Planet at least and then veered into an 'Airplane' parody territory. I guess that's how the executives got confused. Now Kirk is nobody and according to many not even remotely like TOS Kirk.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Oop. there's where you're wrong. It is in our hands. the money that you give the ticket guy at the movies.

Don't worry, my repeat viewings will more than make up for your boycott.

 

[cooleddie74]

[URL="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0704270/"]Spock

: You're assuming that Nero knows how events are predicted to unfold. The contrary, Nero's very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the U.S.S. Kelvin, culminating in the events of today, thereby creating an entire new chain of incidents that cannot be anticipated by either party.
Lt. Nyota Uhura: An alternate reality.
Spock: Precisely. Whatever our lives might have been, if the time continuum was disrupted, our destinies have changed.

[/URL]

You know people can bitch all they like about this but it is NOTHING compared to the bitching we would have gotten if it had been set in the TOS timeline with no deviations. Every canon fibre out of place would have been 1000 threads of bitching.

I still have the occasional conversations with fans who are still royally pissed off that Vulcan was destroyed in the new timeline. I explain to them that the planet and the Vulcan civilization still exist and are thriving in the Prime timeline, so don't be too upset. But a couple of them think that means that Vulcan is now gone in both timelines.

It's almost enough to give a guy a massive, debilitating stroke. (*Sigh*) But they're good people so I'm cool with their opinions, no matter how much I disagree and can convince them otherwise. At the end of the day, STAR TREK isn't worth having a giant heart attack or aneurysm over.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

It's almost enough to give a guy a massive, debilitating stroke. (*Sigh*) But they're good people so I'm cool with their opinions, no matter how much I disagree and can convince them otherwise. At the end of the day, STAR TREK isn't worth having a giant heart attack or aneurysm over.

It's worth getting carpal tunnel for though. I shall and WILL type you ALL into the the light!

 

[cooleddie74]

It's almost enough to give a guy a massive, debilitating stroke. (*Sigh*) But they're good people so I'm cool with their opinions, no matter how much I disagree and can convince them otherwise. At the end of the day, STAR TREK isn't worth having a giant heart attack or aneurysm over.

It's worth getting carpal tunnel for though. I shall and WILL type you ALL into the the light!

I like this thread. There's some good stuff going on in here. I'm enjoying all the back-and-forth, even as teeth-grindingly frustrating as some of it is. You and me, baby? We'll blow the lid of the joint!

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

The cadet's reasoning is sound.

 

[cooleddie74]

Loved your Dr. Seuss takeoff a few pages earlier, BTW. Damn creative and very hilarious. I'd kiss you if I could.

 

[Greg Cox]

You've got more stamina than I do.

I think we're rapidly approaching the point at which we're all just repeating the same arguments over and over again.

To be honest, I keep vowing that I'm not going to get sucked into one of these time sinks again, then somebody asserts for the umpteenth time that all "real" Trek fans are offended by the reboot and I'm like, "Speak for yourself, buster! You don't speak for me."

And off we go again!

 

[cooleddie74]

I hear ya, Greg.

Every time I think I'm out...

THEY PULL ME BACK IN...

(*strange noise*)

Fredo? Fredo?!? Is that you??

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I'd kiss you if I could.

I may throw up on you.

 

[Captain_Nick]

This is incredible. I think I am the king-god of trolls. I pose a simple question and without any baiting whatsoever it devolves into a twenty page argument.