Where are the Gorn in other Star Trek series?
- Thread starter erotavlas
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The Gorn ran into zen master Brian Brophy, who taught them to chill out, and introduced them to a diet of Ranch-flavored Tribbles to satiate their savage appetites (also making for handy breeding sacks).
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I just rewatched the TOS episode "Arena" last night. I'd given it a near perfect score the first time through, and it held up pretty well this second time around. If anything, it was helped by watching it on the small screen this time:
What struck me strongly this time was how justified the Gorns were. We're discussing the morality of the Gorns' actions here. Basically, brutal as the Gorn response to the Cestus III incursion was, if you liken it, say, to the experience of the Wampanoag, then not only were the Gorn justified, it was really their best option..
The writers of the episode seemed to know that, too. Kirk, Spock, McCoy all note that they may likely have been in the wrong, and the episode ends with the suggestion that the Federation and the Gorns might someday get along. Certainly, this was the road taken in the 70s game Star Fleet Battles.
So I was rather dismayed to find that the Gorns in Disco/SNW are essentially
Now, I get why they decided to use the Gorns -- one could plausibly say that the "legends" about strange subspace message in that poorly charted region of space could also include vessels lost to unknown causes. And if the Feds and the Gorns have big empires, then first contact could be a mushy, drawn-out sort of thing.
And I can understand why the writers made the Gorns extra icky -- after all, if Kirk is going to find them so repulsive, they need to look more icky than a pro-wrestler in a green lizard suit.
But turning the Gorns into aggressors from the beginning (not in spoiler code because I understand this aspect is well over six months old--please let me know if it be otherwise), basically undercuts the whole message of "Arena". Because now the Gorns aren't just an overly vigilant, but basically sympathetic race.
So I'd rather the writers had made up a new race and saved the Gorns for another, post-TOS show. Honestly, the Gorns would have been a good pick for what the Klingons ultimately became, a race of martial, somewhat ruthless, but basically honorable beings, but obviously effects costs would have been prohibitive in the 80s.
Just my two cents. How do you feel about this aspect of the NuGorns?
What struck me strongly this time was how justified the Gorns were. We're discussing the morality of the Gorns' actions here. Basically, brutal as the Gorn response to the Cestus III incursion was, if you liken it, say, to the experience of the Wampanoag, then not only were the Gorn justified, it was really their best option..
The writers of the episode seemed to know that, too. Kirk, Spock, McCoy all note that they may likely have been in the wrong, and the episode ends with the suggestion that the Federation and the Gorns might someday get along. Certainly, this was the road taken in the 70s game Star Fleet Battles.
So I was rather dismayed to find that the Gorns in Disco/SNW are essentially
lizard Aliens [tm].
Now, I get why they decided to use the Gorns -- one could plausibly say that the "legends" about strange subspace message in that poorly charted region of space could also include vessels lost to unknown causes. And if the Feds and the Gorns have big empires, then first contact could be a mushy, drawn-out sort of thing.
And I can understand why the writers made the Gorns extra icky -- after all, if Kirk is going to find them so repulsive, they need to look more icky than a pro-wrestler in a green lizard suit.
But turning the Gorns into aggressors from the beginning (not in spoiler code because I understand this aspect is well over six months old--please let me know if it be otherwise), basically undercuts the whole message of "Arena". Because now the Gorns aren't just an overly vigilant, but basically sympathetic race.
They're cold-blooded (haha) murderers, and they kind of deserve whatever they get.
So I'd rather the writers had made up a new race and saved the Gorns for another, post-TOS show. Honestly, the Gorns would have been a good pick for what the Klingons ultimately became, a race of martial, somewhat ruthless, but basically honorable beings, but obviously effects costs would have been prohibitive in the 80s.
Just my two cents. How do you feel about this aspect of the NuGorns?
That there are various subspecies of Gorn and while they might be justified in "Arena" (debatable) that doesn't make them not an aggressive species.
That's why I said "the aggressor". Obviously, both species (Gorn and human) are aggressive!
But, again, we're not seeing a conflict here. We're having two different encounters motivated by different situations. If humans can be motivated that way, why not the Gorn?
Big Bang Gorn by Ian McLean, on Flickr
Monocultures are a shortcut in fiction that can work where little, if any, rewatch/reread is expected. In a more sustained world building approach to storytelling, the significant flaws of a monoculture swiftly become apparent. There are various ways to address this problem and Trek has, occasionally, succeeded at breaking down monocultural limitations. However, few of the prior efforts, including the successful ones, have taken sufficient advantage of the alien settings available to the show. Going too far in an alien direction might prove commercially unviable (lose too much of the more casual audience and eventually the show is unsustainable). But a bit of variety that pushes boundaries can be a good thing.
Ignoring the visuals for a moment, the behavioural discrepancies of the Gorn as seen in various series can be explained or inferred as the result of multiple variations within a species (or multiple sapient species) that are loosely organized within some sort of polity (or competing polities). We simply have not spent a sufficient amount of time with the Gorn to draw definitive conclusions about how a notable minority, let alone a majority, of them behave. I recently rewatched Arena and nothing (again, apart from visuals) made the stories incompatible. As ever, YMMV.
Ignoring the visuals for a moment, the behavioural discrepancies of the Gorn as seen in various series can be explained or inferred as the result of multiple variations within a species (or multiple sapient species) that are loosely organized within some sort of polity (or competing polities). We simply have not spent a sufficient amount of time with the Gorn to draw definitive conclusions about how a notable minority, let alone a majority, of them behave. I recently rewatched Arena and nothing (again, apart from visuals) made the stories incompatible. As ever, YMMV.
Maybe 'the Gorn' is used as a name for a group of reptilian species rather than a single species. Like a little alliance between several reptilian species united by common cause and a dislike of mammalian life forms. Well, a hegemony where the original SNW Gorn species runs the show and rules over a few subjugated species like the TOS/LD gorn and the ENT gorn. But all the species now refer to themselves as 'Gorn' as their political affiliation.
I want to see La'an visit the 24th or 25th century and meet a polite Gorn Starfleet officer.
I want to see La'an visit the 24th or 25th century and meet a polite Gorn Starfleet officer.
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