When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?

[Hermiod]

The same can be said of every single racial classification - for Asians there are Koreans and Vietnamese, for blacks there are Nigerians and Kenyans, etc.

Sure, I never said that wasn't true, only that "white people" are as diverse as anyone else. I've heard it called racism when some casting director casts a Korean as a Japanese character because they can't tell the difference. If that's racism, then so is the term "white people".

Avatar is marketed towards as large a net as possible, actually.

Maybe it is, but my general point stands - movies aimed towards a specific group will reflect the prejudices those people have. Americans have TV channels full of movies for women where all the men are philandering wife beaters. Spike Lee will make a movie like Inside Man where every white cop in New York is a racist who thinks Sikhs are terrorists.

 

[Neroon]

Since the original post was very much about 'white guilt' as it were, it doesn't seem like this thread has veered off that much.

Call it a warning shot.

For the thread to remain appropriate for the SFF forum it needs to stay connected to science fiction and fantasy, specifically the Cameron film "Avatar". Otherwise, it'd belong to TNZ or Misc. Occasionalt forays aren't really a problem, but these forays have been increasing. Just keep this firmly planted in the SFF soil, and everything should be alright.

 

[Kegg]

Here's a sci-fi question then:

Were any of the principal Na'vi white actors? I knew Saldana was black going into the film the first time, and upon rewatching it I think all the four chief Na'vi were non-whites. Which makes Jake Sully calling Tsu'tey brother and being angrily rejected for using such a name have interesting connotations; and the CGI-creation of a third, fictive race allowed the film to define racial identity rather more fluidly, also... though the white Na'vi were the fakes, the avatars, Jake and Norm and Grace.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

Here's a sci-fi question then:

Were any of the principal Na'vi white actors? I knew Saldana was black going into the film the first time, and upon rewatching it I think all the four chief Na'vi were non-whites. Which makes Jake Sully calling Tsu'tey brother and being angrily rejected for using such a name have interesting connotations; and the CGI-creation of a third, fictive race allowed the film to define racial identity rather more fluidly, also... though the white Na'vi were the fakes, the avatars, Jake and Norm and Grace.

Zoe Saldana, CCH Pounder, Laz Alonso, and Peter Mensah are all black. Wes Studi (Neytiri's father) is Native American. (Studi actually appeared in "Dances with Wolves".) So yeah, all the Na'vi were played by "non-white" actors.

 

[barnaclelapse]

I was thinking about this thread some more yesterday and have decided from those thoughts that I honestly feel more guilty about being a human being in general than anything to do with the color of my skin.

I think people suck in general, and that it doesn't have anything to do with race. Bill Hicks once called people "A virus with shoes", and I think that's pretty accurate.

 

[Ethan_Hunt_IMF]

white people can be a waste, that for sure

 

[Ethan_Hunt_IMF]

white people can be a waste, that for sure

BUT the most human being are a waste too.

 

[FordSVT]

^What the fuck?

 

[The Comedian]

No, but you (and I) benefit from a society built on a lot of bad actions by our ancestors. Personally, that means that I owe it to the people we crapped on to make the whole world a better place.

Who do we owe, and what do we owe them?

I think he covered it:

the people we crapped on

to make the whole world a better place

I haven't crapped on anyone.

Not that I recall. If I have I was drunk.

 

[Teelie]

12 pages of white people suck essentially I take it? So it's all about making people feel guilty for being born a certain race which has absolutely no right being acceptable these days, or rather shouldn't. No doubt that's going to be ignored in favor of the constant repetition of "you/we" owe" it to those who were oppressed. So my question is, how long do we have to keep paying for the literal sins of our fathers?

Do we switch sides in a few centuries and the white people become the minority who are oppressed and denied rights or do we stop acting like it's only fair to repay in kind and start treating everyone fairly?

 

[David cgc]

So my question is, how long do we have to keep paying for the literal sins of our fathers?

For as long as we benefit from them. I recall seeing a figure that, at the current rate of change, there will no longer be a racial economic disparity in America in six hundred years, so it'll probably be a while.

 

[Teelie]

That sounds rather pessimistic and anti-progressive. 600 years to pay for what was done in slightly more than 200? And what about Europe's role? It's not like the US just came along and invented this. Or other countries that have oppressed non-natives?

 

[Lt. Trull]

sounds like fantasy cuz the study i saw said that whites will be the minority in america by 2050...

 

[Nowhere Man]

So my question is, how long do we have to keep paying for the literal sins of our fathers?

As long as there is racism, we must constantly remind each generation why it's wrong or we are doomed to repeat the past. Last generation(my generation ) it was Dances with Wolves, before that it was something else. Yes, I didn't personally owne slaves or prevent another race from going to school, but my Country did and that's why I feel guilty. Maybe it's just me, but I don't just see my self as an idividual who just happened to be born in the US. as a white guy. I see my self as an individual who is also a citizen in this country and my country did and still does horrible things to other people or peoples. If I was in the pasenger seat of a car and the driver wrecks and kills someone, I would feel guilty because I would feel like I should have died or I might have done something to distract the driver,or I could have prevented it somehow. If I was taking a test in school and I passed because the teacher was friends with my father groing up, I would feel guilty because I know it's wrong and I didn't earn it. Niether one of those scenerios are my fault, but I still would feel guilty because of the actions of others. That is how I look at the sins of the past, I'm not responsible for what happened, but I feel bad because my country did that. It's up to us to promote equality for all and not just sit on the sidelines and say " It wasen't me ", if we do that then nothing will change. The reason white people still make movies like Avatar is because it's still relevant, because people like Harry Ried still think it's ok to use Negro in a sentance and Bill Clinton still thinks Barack Obama should have been serving coffee instead of running the country. It's because some people voted for Obama because he is black and some voted agianst him for the same reason.Because we still have people walking around in white sheets and hoods yelling " White Power!" That's why. I'm not trying to bring up politic, i'm just saying judge a person by merits , not color( which i'm sure all of you do in this thread) If you don't feel guilty then fine, but I do, not because i'm racist, but because I just do. It's not logical, but I gave my explanation except it or not.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Who do we owe, and what do we owe them?

I think he covered it:

to make the whole world a better place

I haven't crapped on anyone.

Not that I recall. If I have I was drunk.

"We" meaning our society and culture.

 

[Gaith]

We are not responsible for the crimes of our ancestors. If somebody's born into a rich family, would you force them to surrender their wealth to the government?

Ah, but whose wealth is it, really? Age-old customs hold that wealth is rightfully inherited, but one could make just as strong a moral argument that society owns wealth, and that when the original owner of that wealth perishes, the remainder should revert to the society that permitted its gain. Hence estate taxes.

Now of course we should *always* work to make the world a better place - nobody's saying we shouldn't. But *all* people should do that, regardless of race. It's not a special obligation for 'whitey' to do it.

With great economic, political and military power comes great responsibility. American citizens have a greater obligation to do good that a Sudanese family in a refugee camp, for instance.


As to the OP question, I think it's important to remember that Cameron grew up in the comparatively racist 1950s, and probably was exposed to lots of cowboys vs. Indians stuff where the natives were portrayed as vicious savages. And just as adults of the time made that entertainment, he's making entertainment for young people that reflect his beliefs.

So, When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"? Maybe when no filmmakers can remember a time when oppressing indigenous cultures was presented a a noble political imperative.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Given the BO totals, I think we can safely say that the answer to this question is: not in our lifetimes, that's for frakkin sure.

The question now, is how many Avatar sequels and copycat movies will we be treated to in the coming years? Better get used to Magic Whitey Saves the Noble Savages because if there's one thing Hollywood will latch onto like a starving lamprey, it's a formula that works.

 

[Hyperspace05]

Well there is the John Carter of mars, which has started filming now. (the story definitely inspired Cameron as well)

And that is probably the original "whitey saves aliens" story.

But hey... Nothing stops Spike Lee from directing his own version....

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Well there is the John Carter of mars, which has started filming now. (the story definitely inspired Cameron as well)

And that is probably the original "whitey saves aliens" story.

But hey... Nothing stops Spike Lee from directing his own version....

For Spike, I was thinking, Carson of Venus? Pellucidar? And then it hit me...

Tarzan.



Which does the Whitey Saves the Noble Savage story one better. The white and black characters both oppress the noble animals. Tarzan defends the animal kingdom against evil homo sapiens! Now there's a story we can all get behind.

 

[Kegg]

The question now, is how many Avatar sequels

I believe the trilogy idea has been aired. So we can expect at least two, I guess.

and copycat movies

Comparisons to Avatar and Sam Raimi's Warcraft will be inevitable, unless he completely screws up the movie. I have difficulty imagining the film being achieved without the Avatar tech, actually.

And I say it's a matter of time before some poor sap remakes Fantastic Planet now - weird planet, giant blue skinned humans, what could go wrong? (Everything.)

And, of course, there's a Dune movie in the works. First Star Wars stole from Dune and we got a Dune movie, and now Avatar stole from Dune and once more we must return to the Herbertian well.

Of those only Dune can be put in the 'mighty white guy saves people' category, though the Warcraft movie could easily use that as a plot point (how about a human saves the night elves from Orcs? Crap this thing writes itself) and the middle suggestion should not be taken seriously.