Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Dusty Ayres, Dec 24, 2009.
When non-white people start making movies like Avatar, I guess. Which is what, in 500 years perhaps?
LOL - Indeed!
We are waiting for you, Ang Lee, Spike Lee, Lee Daniels, and others... You know you want to make such a film!
District 9 was the better film
Avatar was all fx, but the story just sucked
too bad they left out the sex scene
THIS IS A JOKE!
When black people start making good movies.
Your comment is a bad racist joke.
That said, having just finally seen Avatar I have to say that there's nothing particularly different in the politics of it from stuff like Star Trek or Babylon 5 or even Star Wars. These tropes involving colonialism and the exotic "other" are part and parcel of American popular science fiction as it developed in the 20th century and are probably inseparable from the form. You certainly find somewhat less of them in more self-consciously literary sf or in the European tradition (somewhat ironic, as Europeans are essentially responsible for colonialism itself).
And so is this whole topic.
Agreed. As I said before, there's no such thing as "white people".
Actually, the article that touched this topic off is well-observed and well written. That white Americans, particularly males, are so thin-skinned as a group that they can make a controversy out of the obvious goes a long way toward making the writer's point.
The writer's point is that Avatar is racist. It is not well observed since it did not even note that the supposed white savior did not actually succeed in saving anybody but himself. It also implies this story is often told, which is still untrue no matter who says otherwise.
Since the days when my parents carefully explained to me that the biggest racist in the country was Martin Luther King, I have learned that a favorite racist trick is to find a countercharge of racism.
Not really, since I haven't suggested that Avatar isn't racist. I have no idea if it is or it isn't since I haven't seen it nor do I have any intention of doing so.
It just gets more than a little tiresome listening to people moan about how everything that is wrong in their lives is down to some phantom white, heterosexual man. Yes, sure, and the CIA invented crack to keep the black man down.
Regardless of the context, the term "white people" is racist because it ignores the huge diversity of "white" cultures, just as terms like "black people" or "Asian people" are ignorant too.
I think the author was nitpicking. As has been said here and elsewhere the 'guilt' such as it is, is about wilful destruction of habitat, rather than whitey getting whupped by the coloured people. That said, it's a fantasy movie. Cameron seems to think it's an ecological message, judging from what he said at the Globes; but the ecological message as far as it went was 'don't cut down trees because it's bad', followed up by 'humans aren't worth saving if they don't listen to this message'. Subtle it ain't.
I can see the genesis of that first message, but I'm not sure where the second one comes from. Granted, I've only seen the film once.
And yet to call a black person thin skinned over something like say The Cleavland Show is considered racist...
You realize that we white, heterosexual males have, as a group, have had all the money, power, and influence for quite a while, right? So it seems less justifiable when we whine about how oppressed we are than if it was coming from an ethnic or sexual minority.
It's the difference between speaking truth to power, and kicking someone when they're down.
Gee, I think I can hear the violins now!
The way I see it is this: The group is irrelevant. Do I, personally, have money, power or influence? No. Do I benefit from these things? No. So what's the fucking problem? I do not speak for my race, I get nothing from it, I will not apologize for it. Nor should I be made to do so. This is true for everyone, not just me.
I have not oppressed, nor have I *been* oppressed, so the question is strictly academic.
This is very true. I'm surprised at the amount of 'oh, well, all racism is bad' or 'I'm more ashamed to be human' responses. What does that have to do with white guilt or the myth of the white man subsuming himself in the foreign culture? Avatar takes the fantasy a step further; Lawrence may bemoan the fact he's got blue eyes and white skin but Jake can literally surrender that identity.
Course there are. Just because things aren't simple doesn't mean they're not so; there may be white Germans, white Irishmen, white Americans, but they've got this curious common denominator factor, can you guess what it'd be?
Heck I live on an island whose traditional racial hatreds were between two white groups and even I find this pretty obvious.
You most likely have far more than you think, intentional or not, just by virtue of being a white male.
I mean there is no such thing as "white people" in the context in which the term is being used here, one massive group of people unified in their evil scheme to keep the black man down.
No, he hasn't. Most of us haven't. You make conscious decisions to discriminate and if he gives his word that he hasn't made such a decision then I, for one, believe him. You choose not to give a black man a job based on his colour, you choose to give an unfit mother custody of the kids, you choose not to let a gay man donate blood - these are choices you make. If you choose to do the right thing then you did not discriminate.
Thinking like this does absolutely nothing to help anyone.
Nobody's said that. At most they've said there was systematic racism in how societies have been constructed, which seems a fair enough analysis.
Separate names with a comma.