When there's a plothole, do you ignore it?

[Shawnster]

Generations Plot Hole

Or Kirk and Picard exiting the Nexus, period. The Nexus let's people live out any fantasy or adventure they want. Picard wanted to live out the fantasy or adventure of stopping Soran, so he did.

Or the big plot hole of HOW did Kirk and Picard exit the nexus? I mean, they are on imaginary horses one minute and standing on the planet the next. How did that happen? When did we learn a person could time travel via Nexus?

Soran and Guinian were on a ship that entered the Nexus. They escaped when the ship they were on exited the Nexus. Kirk was on a ship that entered the Nexus and he was blown out of the hull breach.

For that matter, since it is easy enough to enter the Nexus by means of a starship, why does does Soran go through such an elaborate plan to return to the Nexus when he could simply steal a shuttle and fly into the Nexus? Instead, he has to work with the Duras sisters and blow up a planet in order to alter the trajectory of the Nexus so that it will hit the planet he is standing on so he can enter the Nexus.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

When did we learn a person could time travel via Nexus?

If time does not exist inside the Nexus, then logically speaking, one can leave it at any time one wishes.

why does does Soran go through such an elaborate plan to return to the Nexus when he could simply steal a shuttle and fly into the Nexus?

That was already established in the film. If Soran had tried that, the ship might have been destroyed before he could reach the Nexus.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Well the most glaring pot hole to my mind (and definition heh heh) is the Bird of Prey. In TOS Errand of Mercy Stiles clearly stated it was THE way to identify a Romulan ship the bird of prey painted on its underside. STAR TREK II suddenly it was a Klingon Bird of prey and in TNG the Romulans flew Warbirds.

Someone else may have already mentioned this, but it's not a problem (or plot hole) in any way, shape, or form.

In "The Enterprise Incident," it's established that the Romulans came to use Klingon ship designs, so why not vice versa?

By the way, you were thinking of "Balance of Terror," not "Errand of Mercy." Also, it was Star Trek III, not Star Trek II.

 

[JesterFace]

When it comes to plotholes In 'Generations', was it already mentioned how a rocket that didn't seem to have warp engines reached the sun in the Veridian system in about 10 seconds...

 

[Mapper]

I usually don't catch them, until pointed out by someone else. But even then I can live with the plot holes most of the time.

 

[at Quark's]

Generations Plot Hole
Or the big plot hole of HOW did Kirk and Picard exit the nexus? I mean, they are on imaginary horses one minute and standing on the planet the next. How did that happen? When did we learn a person could time travel via Nexus?

True that we don't know how it works but that in itself is not a plothole in my opinion. It's established explicitly in the movie (by dialogue) that they can, they just don't tell us how it works. Just like they don't tell us exactly how warp drives or force fields work but it's still taken for granted that they do.

When it comes to plotholes In 'Generations', was it already mentioned how a rocket that didn't seem to have warp engines reached the sun in the Veridian system in about 10 seconds...

Or even if it did have warp, how could we view the dimming of that sun within that same time frame? Shouldn't the light of that star have taken at least several minutes to reach the surface? It didn't look like it was a red dwarf with tiny orbits...

 

[KennyB]

Smaller ones I have no problem with.............some of the ones pointed out above have troubled me.

 

[Mattadd]

I think as a Trek fans we are all pretty good at overlooking plot holes. If we weren't we wouldn't be Trek fans due to the colossal number of plot holes in Trek.

I agree with the person that said it only really bothers me of the central plot hinges on said plot hole. For example I saw DS9 "Change of Heart" recently and even though it was a pretty good episode I couldn't get over it being so implausible. The whole premise rested on Starfleet sending out a married couple on a dangerous away mission. That would never happen in any modern military because of the completely foreseeable consequences that came to pass in the episode.

 

[Prax]

The expression "plot hole" is often used incorrectly.
We should lay down some terms:

Plot Hole- as I understand it, is a logical inconsistency in the story or plot, and can sometimes be subjective, as what makes logical sense to some, may not to others. It's often used as an umbrella term in criticism.

Continuity Error- something occurring out of order as it relates to story or plot. An example: In the Voyager episode "Fury," Kes travels back to 51 days after Voyager was lost in the Delta Quadrant. The crew are talking about ways to defend against the Vidiians, and even mention already being attacked by them, but Voyager uses Stardates, and has not encountered the Vidiians yet. This is a genuine continuity error, but not a plot hole.

Anachronism- similar to a continuity error, but not related to story or plot. An example might be a character wearing a watch on his left wrist, but when the camera angle changes, it is now on his right wrist. These are usually due to editing or sometimes editing in pickup shoots. They're pretty trivial, and the editor or director probably knows that it's there, but valued the shot and sequence over any anachronism.

Goof- An honest mistake in costume or set design, or if it was known, was considered less important than fixing it. An example could be when Sisko is wearing his combadge on the grey portion of his uniform in the episode that first featured the new uniforms(Rapture?). It could also be a shot of the stage crew showing up in the final project, like in a reflection or a shadow.

Mistake- Same as a goof? I dunno.

When a movie or episode is being put together, every minute detail is scrutinized. What we might quickly call an error, point the finger and say "incompetent!" or "Lazy Writer!" is probably something that was already considered, and ended up that way for one practical reason or another. And we may not have the privilege to know that reason.

I didn't look these terms up, and the words themselves may seem synonymous, but in terms of film criticism, it's more accurate to separate them. If my understanding of any of the above is in error, please feel free to correct me.

 

[JesterFace]

Plot Hole
Continuity Error
Anachronism
Goof
Mistake

When creating this thread, by plothole I meant all of the above.

 

[JesterFace]

Or even if it did have warp, how could we view the dimming of that sun within that same time frame? Shouldn't the light of that star have taken at least several minutes to reach the surface? It didn't look like it was a red dwarf with tiny orbits...

If I remember correctly (and feel too lazy to check) it takes 8 minutes for light to reach Earth from our sun, might not be that much different in the Veridian system.

 

[Prax]

Veridiian is a flat earth system

 

[Arpy]

If I'm sufficiently engaged, I'll let it slide in the moment, but I'll notice it and maybe talk about it later. It won't bother me if it's been a good experience overall. What I don't like, and you see it on fan-sites all the time, is when fans come up with wild explanations for the mistakes that change the intent of the thing itself. It's one thing to ask, for fun, if the whole thing is the dream of one of the characters, but it's another when you have to see it as such for some costume inconsistency to make sense. Just let it go. You KNOW the answer. Geordi's wearing the wrong uniform at the end of "Yesterday's Enterprise" because costuming made a mistake, not because it's proof he's in Section 31.

 

[Timewalker]

The original PLANET OF THE APES falls apart if you ask why Charlton Heston doesn't notice that the apes are speaking English. Doesn't matter. Still possibly my all-time favorite SF movie.

Or Taylor could just be one of those Americans who simply expects everyone to speak English to him, no matter how foreign a place he finds himself in. So when the apes speak English, he just accepts it as a matter of course.

But there are some things that are down right absurd on the shows. Like what ever happened to the Borg baby they found on Voyager.? They made it clear they beamed her aboard Voyager and the ship she came from was destroyed, and there was no mention of her every sense.

Some fanfic stories say she died, and others have someone on the ship adopt her. Take your pick.

That's a science error, not a plot hole. Simply as a matter of terminology.

Although the same criteria probably applies. How much does it spoil the episode? Well, that probably depends on how glaring it is, how fundamental it is to the plot, and how good the rest of the ep is. Is it just a throwaway line that one can simply overlook, or does the entire climax hinge on the difference between a quasar and a pulsar or whatever?

People have been talking about the "Kessel Run in 12 parsecs" line for over 40 years. I remember my first reaction as being dumbfounded (even at age 14 I knew the line was nonsense). That said, the original Star Wars movie (pre-Lucas's "improvements") is still my favorite of all of them.

Or Starfleet forgetting where Khan was . . . even though both Chekov and Kyle are aboard the Reliant. And Kyle was actually in "Space Seed."

Doesn't matter. Still my favorite Trek movie.

That one can be explained by one department not knowing what another department is up to, and the "need to know" thing. Carol didn't need to know about Khan. Terrell didn't, either. As for Chekov and Kyle not immediately realizing what was going on, remember that both of them were very low on the proverbial totem pole at that time (apparently Chekov was so low that the only one who actually saw him was Khan; the rest of us certainly didn't). So they would have heard of Khan and the Botany Bay, but wouldn't necessarily have been told what happened to him. They were junior officers and didn't need to know.

 

[Paul Weaver]

Some fanfic stories say she died, and others have someone on the ship adopt her. Take your pick.

Returned offscreen, or adopted by Joe Carey and Samantha Wildman hence never seen again.

The fact that many secondary characters simply vanished Voyager season 4-7 were in an alternate reality, perhaps one where Sinbad plays a genie in a movie and Nelson Mandela died in prison in the 80s. The baby must have fallen into that universe (plot holes are like wormholes).

Veridiian is a flat earth system

Given it appears only a few light-seconds from its sun, and the issues with the Enterprise (on the other side of the planet - I think) being in daylight, there's clearly something whacky going on. Perhaps the nexus had some form of subspace gravimetrical radiation that caused the oddities.

That would never happen in any modern military because of the completely foreseeable consequences that came to pass in the episode.

Starfleet isn't a modern military

 

[1001001]

But there are some things that are down right absurd on the shows. Like what ever happened to the Borg baby they found on Voyager.? They made it clear they beamed her aboard Voyager and the ship she came from was destroyed, and there was no mention of her every sense. Things like this happen in cartoons all the time, but this is supposed to be a sci fi/drama set in a "real world" atmosphere

I was at a convention once and someone asked Kate Mulgrew about the Borg baby (one of the reasons I hate audience question time).

She said: "Neelix served it with a delicious orange sauce."

So there you go.

 

[Prax]

That's really funny

 

[Prax]

If I'm sufficiently engaged, I'll let it slide in the moment, but I'll notice it and maybe talk about it later. It won't bother me if it's been a good experience overall. What I don't like, and you see it on fan-sites all the time, is when fans come up with wild explanations for the mistakes that change the intent of the thing itself. It's one thing to ask, for fun, if the whole thing is the dream of one of the characters, but it's another when you have to see it as such for some costume inconsistency to make sense. Just let it go. You KNOW the answer. Geordi's wearing the wrong uniform at the end of "Yesterday's Enterprise" because costuming made a mistake, not because it's proof he's in Section 31.

I think that is safely in the "goof" category, and not a plot hole.