When the Doctor got zapped by the lake... Questions. (SPOILERS)

[gastrof]

Sadly, I was only able to see a few episodes from the season where the Doctor got killed by the lake, only to have his younger self show up...and get slapped by River.

I have picked up that it apparently turned out River is Amy and Rory's daughter? And she was somehow turned into a being able to regenerate simply by being conceived (or gestated) in the Tardis? (Does she have two hearts, or is she human, but somehow able to regenerate nonetheless?)

Did they ever explain why the Tardis' scan of Amy said she was both pregnant and not pregnant? (That is what it said, right?)

Also, was it the daughter, as the little astronaut, who "killed" the Doctor by the lake? And if so, why?

Also, and you know I've got to ask this one-
Did the Doctor really die (I hope someone did, being then set on fire and all), or was it someone pretending to be him? Or did they end up changing that timeline somehow?

We've had problems here in the States since SyFy Channel stopped airing Doctor Who, and I've only had limited access to BBC America.

Please fill me in.

I promise to start getting the current series DVDs, right from Eccleston on, as soon as possible, but for now PLEASE fill me in.

 

[wamdue]

one at a time, its complex

I have picked up that it apparently turned out River is Amy and Rory's daughter? And she was somehow turned into a being able to regenerate simply by being conceived (or gestated) in the Tardis? (Does she have two hearts, or is she human, but somehow able to regenerate nonetheless?)

yes River is Rory and Amys daughter, and yes apparently being conceived whilst the TARDIS is in the Time Vortex means she can regenerate.

Did they ever explain why the Tardis' scan of Amy said she was both pregnant and not pregnant? (That is what it said, right?)

the Amy who the Doctors scanned was in fact a flesh duplicate of Amy, linked to the real Amy.

Also, was it the daughter, as the little astronaut, who "killed" the Doctor by the lake? And if so, why?

yes River was the astronaut killed "the Doctor" she did it, because apparently she had no control of the suit, and I guess also to preserve the time line.

Did the Doctor really die (I hope someone did, being then set on fire and all), or was it someone pretending to be him? Or did they end up changing that timeline somehow?

no the Doctor did not die, River killed a "teselecta", a robot with tiny people inside which travels in time, and can be made to look like anybody. the Doctor was hiding inside. The Doctor was hiding inside.

 

[gastrof]

Do I want to know what a "flesh duplicate" is?

 

[captcalhoun]

it's a meat puppet, an artificially grown human that can be linked to an operator whom it remsembles and operated remotely like ... a puppet.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I think the flesh duplicates were meant to be a misdirection, but nearly everyone seems to have worked out in advance that it was probably a Teselecta that River actually "killed" because of its apparent (faked) emission of regeneration energy.

 

[RoJoHen]

Every single question you asked are important plot points in the season. You should really just try and watch it!

 

[23skidoo]

Every single question you asked are important plot points in the season. You should really just try and watch it!

Yeah, I have to agree. The resolution really does rely on viewing virtually every episode of the season. And the season contains The Doctor's Wife, which is considered one of the best episodes in the 48-year history of the series.

Get the DVDs or find a place to legally stream them if you're in the UK, US or Canada.

Alex

 

[RoJoHen]

All of Season 6 just got added to Netflix Instant Streaming.

 

[gastrof]

I don't have Netflix service of any kind.

Not everone does.

I'm always surprised when people bring that service up, like it's a given.

23 and RoJo-
Did you even read my first post? I said I'll buy the DVDs as soon as I can, but the questions were being asked now.

That's the whole point.

"I'd like some answers now, since I won't have the DVDs for a while."

"The episodes can answer your questions."

Huh?

*sigh*

 

[RoJoHen]

I don't have Netflix service of any kind.

Not everone does.

I'm always surprised when people bring that service up, like it's a given.

In my life, it is a given. I don't know a single person who doesn't have it.

23 and RoJo-
Did you even read my first post? I said I'll buy the DVDs as soon as I can, but the questions were being asked now.

That's the whole point.

"I'd like some answers now, since I won't have the DVDs for a while."

"The episodes can answer your questions."

Huh?

*sigh*

Well, I am someone who detests spoilers with ever fiber of my being, so I can't wrap my head around the idea of finding out what happens in a show before watching it.

 

[gastrof]

I don't have Netflix service of any kind.

Not everyone does.

I'm always surprised when people bring that service up, like it's a given.

In my life, it is a given. I don't know a single person who doesn't have it.

23 and RoJo-
Did you even read my first post? I said I'll buy the DVDs as soon as I can, but the questions were being asked now.

That's the whole point.

"I'd like some answers now, since I won't have the DVDs for a while."

"The episodes can answer your questions."

Huh?

*sigh*

Well, I am someone who detests spoilers with ever fiber of my being, so I can't wrap my head around the idea of finding out what happens in a show before watching it.

I'm not you, and I did ask for the information. That's what this thread is for.

As for you not knowing of anyone who doesn't have Netflix...



...umm...yeah. You do. Me. I just told you.

Come on! Isn't it bad enough that I'm in the States and we get so little access to the Doctor? Now I beg for a few crumbs, and you suggest I go buy some bread at a bakery?

 

[Kelthaz]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_(series_6)

 

[RoJoHen]

Come on! Isn't it bad enough that I'm in the States and we get so little access to the Doctor? Now I beg for a few crumbs, and you suggest I go buy some bread at a bakery?

As someone who is also from the States and whose cable company also doesn't have BBC America, I feel no sympathy for you.

 

[Chaos Descending]

And the season contains The Doctor's Wife, which is considered one of the best episodes in the 48-year history of the series.

It's good, but it's not remotely close to that good.

 

[TeknoNurd]

It's interesting, we just watched this season on Netflix over the weekend, having seen it only once previously. Both my spousal-unit and I remembered things differently than they occurred, we resequenced things in the order they occurred rather than the order in which they were shown. Odd how memory works.
I don't catch a lot that real Whovians catch, and don't know what Doctor 3 or 6 might have said all those years ago that they might have been drawing on.


New Question 1: Timing of Doctors. The "Doctor" that was killed was [said to be] 200 years older than the Doctor back at the cafe and thereafter. Unless we missed it, there did not seem to be any indication that the Doctor was bouncing about for 200 years. What did I miss or what is the explanation?

My thoughts: The Doctor became aware of his death date in the Hitler episode. He mentions a "farewell tour" that could have been 200 years, but it didn't feel like it. I think the Doctor (as the Tes-whatever) lied [Rule 1: The Doctor Lies] about being 200 years older, just to remove any sense of urgency the other might have otherwise.

Rather than the Tesel-whatcha, I would have preferred to see the Doc use a Doppleganger. Mostly, because gangers were used, not once, but twice against the Doctor, and it would have been interesting for him to fool them they way they fooled him. I think the one reason this had to be ruled out, though, is that the Doctor-ganger that was created was a living, breathing, thinking, everything, duplicate person, so killing him would be something the Doctor would oppose. So, maybe not. Well, maybe if the Doctor-ganger could be kept solely a meat-puppet, and not indepentently alive.

Question 2: [This may be thread worthy on it's own, or may have one, in which case please point]... What is the Question?

My Thoughs: I have no idea, but I suspect it will be a major theme next season. That and a possible River Song / Doctor child, since he danced around that question.

My spousal unit thinks it's what the blue guy kept asking "Doctor Who?" Seems slightly obvious, but I can't imagine how the answer would be so devestating to the Silence. But, the blue guy kept repeating it as if it had tremendous importance.

 

[captcalhoun]

1. 200 years could easily have passed off-screen between Closing Time and the opening of The Wedding of River Song. We have no idea, but it's not implausible.

2. that is the question: "Doctor Who?"

 

[TeknoNurd]

1. 200 years could easily have passed off-screen between Closing Time and the opening of The Wedding of River Song. We have no idea, but it's not implausible.

Not saying it wasn't plausible, just that it didn't seem like it. He drops Amy and Rory, next episode he visits Craig as (apparently) the final stop of his "farewell tour", because "tommorrow is the day." We also saw some preparations for the lake party. A little lie to make it less pressing on the group just seems like something the Doc would do, sorta like trying to drop them off before checking out the living flesh, trying to protect them.

2. that is the question: "Doctor Who?"

But, how would the answer cause the Silence to fall? Perhaps that will be the angle on the season, how the answer to "Doctor Who?" will cause the Silence to fall. I imagine it would have to be quite a convoluted set of circumstances. I also don't see them actaully answering "Doctor WHO?" for isn't that, really, the ultimate question of the series? Perhaps answering "Doctor WHO?" causes the Silence to fall by ending the entire franchise?

Perhaps the question is "Doctor. Who?" in response to a statement such as "I know who can destroy the Silence!" but that would not be terribly satisfying.

But, that's probably why I don't get the big bucks for writing Science Fiction.

 

[Sindatur]

Regarding the 200 years. Anytime, the Doctor dematerializes with no one inside the TARDIS with him, any amount of time of time could have passed, and we just weren't shown those Adventures.

Eccelston, when he first takes Rose travelling with him, he dematerializes without Rose for only a few seconds, and comes back and asks her, are you sure you don't want to come along <paraphrased>. He may actually have come back instantly, as it looked like he did from Rose's perspective, but, for all we know, he may have been off travelling for 50 or 100 years, and returned to almost the exact time he left Rose.

We did see Amy and Rory watching Old classic Movies with the Doctor popping up in scenes, and we saw him posing for the painting, so we know he was indeed doing alot of galavanting when not with Amy and Rory, there could easily 1000 adventures he went on in those 200 years, and we saw only a couple of them.

 

[TeknoNurd]

Regarding the 200 years. Anytime, the Doctor dematerializes with no one inside the TARDIS with him, any amount of time of time could have passed, and we just weren't shown those Adventures.

Eccelston, when he first takes Rose travelling with him, he dematerializes without Rose for only a few seconds, and comes back and asks her, are you sure you don't want to come along <paraphrased>. He may actually have come back instantly, as it looked like he did from Rose's perspective, but, for all we know, he may have been off travelling for 50 or 100 years, and returned to almost the exact time he left Rose.

We did see Amy and Rory watching Old classic Movies with the Doctor popping up in scenes, and we saw him posing for the painting, so we know he was indeed doing alot of galavanting when not with Amy and Rory, there could easily 1000 adventures he went on in those 200 years, and we saw only a couple of them.

I understand the DW concept. Yes, he could have been doing all sorts of things in those 200 years, if there were 200 years to be filled, and he wasn't lieing. Basically, I am exploring the idea that he didn't take a 200 year "farewell tour", but took whatever time it took to arrange stuff, having fun along the way, certainly.

After all, in "When a good man goes to war" the Doc certainly took a fair amount of time calling on a lot of characters who were friends and/or owed him favors in a lot of different places, times, etc. I suppose this could have eaten a good chunk of that time. Again, with the DW concept, it could have been any number of years to put together, and we only saw a few short pieces of detail of that. Rory and Amy didn't age (noticably), but it's possible they waited for 5 minutes while the Doc bounced for years and years putting it together. While all of this time expended is DW plausible, to me it's not particularly practicle. To *me* it wouldn't have been that long a period, as he was anxious to get Amy back, and I don't think he would have dallied.

Just with the following points, a Doctor Who lie seems at least as plausible, if not more so:
1. The urgency of the situation (First, getting Amy back, then Melody)
2. He became "too loud, too noticed" and bouncing about for 200 more years wasn't going to lessen that, just the opposite;
3. The Silence was really in his business, so to sort it out he needed to (appear to) die;
4. Comfort Amy/Rory/River, him dying 200 years out does not make the issue terribly pressing, they have time to puzzle it out;
5. He could have simply travelled forever, never going to that place on that date and time, so why 200ish years?
6. The timing: He got the envolopes from Craig ("the day before"); so he'd already been tooling around for 200 years; or having devised his plan, took 200 years to bring it together. Either way, I don't think he'd of dallied.

Really, though, this was more of an idle thought. Not important in the scheme of things. If next season they establish he bumped around for 200 years, it won't change my life a bit. If, however, they establish he lied, then I'll be able to quote this post, and brag to my spousal unit that I was right!... and it won't change my life a bit.

More interesting to me is the 2nd question and possibilities there. How does the answer to "Doctor Who?" or "Doctor, Who?" destroy the Silence? I want next season, now.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Regarding the 200 years. Anytime, the Doctor dematerializes with no one inside the TARDIS with him, any amount of time of time could have passed, and we just weren't shown those Adventures.

Eccelston, when he first takes Rose travelling with him, he dematerializes without Rose for only a few seconds, and comes back and asks her, are you sure you don't want to come along <paraphrased>. He may actually have come back instantly, as it looked like he did from Rose's perspective, but, for all we know, he may have been off travelling for 50 or 100 years, and returned to almost the exact time he left Rose.

We did see Amy and Rory watching Old classic Movies with the Doctor popping up in scenes, and we saw him posing for the painting, so we know he was indeed doing alot of galavanting when not with Amy and Rory, there could easily 1000 adventures he went on in those 200 years, and we saw only a couple of them.

I understand the DW concept. Yes, he could have been doing all sorts of things in those 200 years, if there were 200 years to be filled, and he wasn't lieing. Basically, I am exploring the idea that he didn't take a 200 year "farewell tour", but took whatever time it took to arrange stuff, having fun along the way, certainly.

After all, in "When a good man goes to war" the Doc certainly took a fair amount of time calling on a lot of characters who were friends and/or owed him favors in a lot of different places, times, etc. I suppose this could have eaten a good chunk of that time. Again, with the DW concept, it could have been any number of years to put together, and we only saw a few short pieces of detail of that. Rory and Amy didn't age (noticably), but it's possible they waited for 5 minutes while the Doc bounced for years and years putting it together. While all of this time expended is DW plausible, to me it's not particularly practicle. To *me* it wouldn't have been that long a period, as he was anxious to get Amy back, and I don't think he would have dallied.

Just with the following points, a Doctor Who lie seems at least as plausible, if not more so:
1. The urgency of the situation (First, getting Amy back, then Melody)
2. He became "too loud, too noticed" and bouncing about for 200 more years wasn't going to lessen that, just the opposite;
3. The Silence was really in his business, so to sort it out he needed to (appear to) die;
4. Comfort Amy/Rory/River, him dying 200 years out does not make the issue terribly pressing, they have time to puzzle it out;
5. He could have simply travelled forever, never going to that place on that date and time, so why 200ish years?
6. The timing: He got the envolopes from Craig ("the day before"); so he'd already been tooling around for 200 years; or having devised his plan, took 200 years to bring it together. Either way, I don't think he'd of dallied.

Really, though, this was more of an idle thought. Not important in the scheme of things. If next season they establish he bumped around for 200 years, it won't change my life a bit. If, however, they establish he lied, then I'll be able to quote this post, and brag to my spousal unit that I was right!... and it won't change my life a bit.

He didn't decide to wait 200 years. It's the fact that he WAS 200 years older when he died. He couldn't change that. It kept saying it was a "fixed point." So he was always going to die at that place, at the time, and in that place in his time stream.

If anything, most of your points reflect the writing choice may not have been very good. It was a good hook at the beginning of the series, but, didn't resolve very well.