When SHOULD Riker have left?

[Mojochi]

Yes I understood what you meant - this is exactly the false equivalence that I was addressing.

Asserting that because Picard commanded the Stargazer for twenty years then it must also be true that he will command the Enterprise for twenty years is a logical fallacy - the two things aren't linked in the way you're stating they are.

In the same way that because I owned my first car for ten years, it doesn't follow that I'll own my second car for ten years as well (I owned it for three years).

I'm not saying he likely would command Enterpise(s) for 22 years. I'm saying he did do that. He did command them just as long as the Stargazer, & one could easily surmise he might do it, & that a strategy that he'd vacate before Riker was 50 was an ill-advised one IMHO, based on his choice to do so once before. It's not a guarantee, but it's a pretty safe bet, that if he likes where he's at, he ain't moving

 

[Angry Fanboy]

I still don't think that him captaining the Stargazer for twenty years is enough to surmise he'll command the Enterprise-D for twenty years - the length of time he captained the Stargazer is a single data point which you're extrapolating out from.

 

[Qonundrum]

Maybe he should have left for his own command when he felt like he was ready for it, not when someone else wants him to go.
Perhaps after 'The Best of Both Worlds' he felt like he wasn't ready.

If Picard stayed borgified then Riker would be captain of the ship he loved the most... and hugged and cuddled and secretly called 'George'...

 

[Maurice]

[...]Outside of movie/TV world Jonathan Frakes was a hot commodity in Hollywood as a director[...]

His IMDb does not support this statement.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

His IMDb does not support this statement.

Indeed. I think 'hot commodity' is overstating it more than a little.

A couple of Star Trek films and a pretty poorly recieved Thunderbirds seem to be the only noteworthy cinema efforts, although he's clearly a solid television director working regularly.

 

[Makarov]

Everyone wants to work with Frakes. You might say his charisma is Beyond Belief

 

[BillJ]

Should have left for the Aries.

 

[Mojochi]

I still don't think that him captaining the Stargazer for twenty years is enough to surmise he'll command the Enterprise-D for twenty years - the length of time he captained the Stargazer is a single data point which you're extrapolating out from.

I get that, & opinions are what they are, but I don't really see it as a data point. I'm not sure the 10 year old car analogy quite fits either imho. It's a life choice, a career attribute, a personality trait.

Look at it like this. I personally have had the same job, in the same place, for 20 years myself. If I went out tomorrow to get another job just like this one, that longevity would certainly be worth recognizing. It represents reliability, even if it's only one example. How many 20 year examples in a person's life is there going to be after all?

So back to Riker. If I'm him, & I'm shaping my future. Do I take the gamble that I have an off chance of snagging an assignment, in the near future, which is occupied by a guy who's most well known other assignment went for 22 years, or do I assume that he quite possibly could be a lock here, & maybe I ought to be looking around for other opportunities, unless I want a potentially loooong wait, only to be disappointed anyhow, because I might have squandered any chance I had to distinguish myself otherwise, while waiting for him? What's the smarter course to pursue really? He's been refusing the leadership role the whole time he waits

After all, it's not as though Captain Riker of the USS Melbourne has any less of a chance to become the new 1701-D's captain, if he wasn't there when Picard left anyhow. Refusing promotion, while waiting around for his "Crack at that chair" is just not a good life plan. It actually diminishes your stock in the eyes of those who'd promote you. At best you appear diffident, & at worst entitled, or selfish

 

[FFunctionalData]

He should have taken it when they offered him the Aries. He also should have taken Worf and make him his Number 1.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

I like the idea that, as a character, Riker went against the cliché of the young, ambitious hot shot who wanted to rise in rank and conquer the galaxy with his awesomeness. Yes, he sort of stated that on his Starfleet Talent Profile for HR, but he definitely deep-down didn't want much more than to learn and do his job on the Enterprise.

I think it's a cool character trait, and one that makes Riker one of the more nuanced and interesting characters of the TNG-era.

He probably thought and rightly I think that the no.1 of the Enterprise would have much more influence on the affairs of the galaxy that Captain of some average ship in the fleet stuck patrolling the Pakled border or something

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

He should have taken it when they offered him the Aries. He also should have taken Worf and make him his Number 1.

Commander Flaherty would be a little pissed off at being replaced by a junior lieutenant.

 

[Mojochi]

He probably thought and rightly I think that the no.1 of the Enterprise would have much more influence on the affairs of the galaxy that Captain of some average ship in the fleet stuck patrolling the Pakled border or something

I agree. There's really only 2 reasons he stuck around, the above (AKA hubris) & the other possibility, he had no confidence in his ability to hack it, or felt it was undeserved, because he hadn't truly earned it, being that his career was paid for with the lives of Pegasus crew.

I think the way they wrote Riker later on tried to recast him as motivated by the latter, but I still think there's a full supply of hubris & entitlement at play, & as I see it, they're supposed to be explorers. Being more concerned about how big a deal you are kind of misses the point imho

 

[Go-Captain]

Say Riker does get an offer of command right after BoBW, and it's a Galaxy, but with Commander Shelby there it's a test bed for military technologies in a spin-off series.

It's both Riker's dream post and his worst nightmare, as he famously despises combat except as a mental exercise. Even with his experience in BoBW, and understanding the desire for better weapons, he still sees combat as a failure, and sees BoBW as proving that point. Bigger guns failed to protect the Federation, it was humanity and clever engineering which saved the day. Riker's character arc would be him coming to terms with and facing down the creeping militarism within Starfleet from the forefront of the militarizing effort.

Once DS9 "The Jem'Hadar" comes around things could get really interesting. The forces Riker would be tempering, and perhaps which had lost their influence, would be driven into an even greater panic and position.

 

[Makarov]

How about Starfleet is so impressed by the handling of the mission in Chain of Command that they reassign Riker to Jellico's ship as first officer. Then we get Frakes and Ronny Cox leading a show together. Slowly Riker becomes more uptight and Jellico starts to like jazz.

 

[Mojochi]

^You got about as much chance of that as Tom Riker becoming the XO of Will's USS Titan, which, btw, would be one hell of a strategic advantage

 

[Nyotarules]

In universe after Wolf 359, experienced officers would be needed. After he turned down that promotion I would not have offered him another one if I was Starfleet. The novels explain it well in the A Time to series.....Admiral Janeway lets him know if he refuses again, his career is dead or words to that effect.

 

[Go-Captain]

In universe after Wolf 359, experienced officers would be needed. After he turned down that promotion I would not have offered him another one if I was Starfleet. The novels explain it well in the A Time to series.....Admiral Janeway lets him know if he refuses again, his career is dead or words to that effect.

In a real life military if he passed up command once he would be on his way out after his current tour of duty. So maybe after a year or two he would be out. But in Star Trek where one captain can stay on the same ship for decades, officers don’t follow the up-or-out rule.

As far as I can tell there are always enough ships for the amount of officers so the career track never gets plugged up (except for Harry Kim), and Starfeet is likely avoiding the Peter Principle where a person great in one position earns a promotion to a position they are awful in. Starfleet must both recognize some people are best in certain positions and better off never being promoted (alternate Picard) while also recognizing the desires and autonomy of individuals to decide their career paths within the bounds offered by Starfleet (repeated Riker offers). In my mind that also fits with Starfleet letting people (Worf) leave Starfleet without issue (no contractual obligation for time of service) and let them back in without detriment to rank or otherwise jumping through hoops.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

In a real life military if he passed up command once he would be on his way out after his current tour of duty. So maybe after a year or two he would be out. But in Star Trek where one captain can stay on the same ship for decades, officers don’t follow the up-or-out rule.

This is one of the examples of Starfleet being more akin to a uniformed Federal/law enforcement agency than a military as while many non-US militaries are less strict about "up and out" for enlisted and NCOs and maybe even junior officers, a senior officer like Riker stagnating like that would cause issues after a while.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

Ultimately Starfleet is portrayed as a quasi-military organisation - it has military aspects (probably a lot of military aspects) but there are other aspects that aren't military.

 

[valkyrie013]

Best time, after BoBW.. He could have asked for a galaxy class vessel and then pinched a few people from the Enterprise to crew her.
The could have worked in a serialized version, same sets, maybe a different lighting scheme to show there on the Titan instead of the Enterprise... or something..
What could have happened.. and would explain why he stayed for over a decade as a first officer would be.. a good 2 parter idea, maybe a book writter might want to expand on..
In season 4, Riker DOES get a command, and goes off.. then something happens where he gets demoted back to commander, and picard takes him back. and then he's stuck as first officer. or something to that effect.
An episode to explain Why he stood around for so long.. either that or he did something to Piss off the Admiralty to warnt nope.. not on my watch will he get a command..