When Good Shows Go Bad

[Bluesteel]

BattleStar Galatica- After the Valley of Darkness the show went fucking downhill.

Stargate SG-1 - Full Circle. I remember this episode. It is one of my favourite SG-1 episodes. Fantastic ending to S6. How ever Season 7 just went fucking down quickly. The only time the show made up for it was Rapture and Threads. After that all of it was crap. Especially when they got those dickheads from Farscape to appear in it. I hated every single time Vala opened her mouth. Browder was ok sometimes but Vala of oh god. I wanted someone to break her jaw so that they wire it shut.

 

[Harvey]

Surprisingly, "Rapture" is a title Stargate SG-1 has never used. I think you meant "Reckoning."

 

[Bluesteel]

Surprisingly, "Rapture" is a title Stargate SG-1 has never used. I think you meant "Reckoning."

Thanks. I'm not good on episodes titles. I just watch them and only remember a few of them. Especially if their name is cool like "Far Beyond The Stars" or "In the Pale Moonlight".

 

[Harvey]

Stargate is particularly bad with generic episode titles. It's rare that they use one that hasn't already been taken by one or more other science fiction series. And Stargate Universe isn't much better. Its nondescript episode titles (Air, Darkness, Light, etc.) could just as easily be replaced with "Episode 1," "Episode 2," etc. and the show would be no worse off for it.

 

[Triskelion]

Ban 'em! Voyager is the same way. To this day you can quote me a Stargate or Voy epi and I still don't know which one it is. They should do it like Friends: "The One With The Alien Boothby". "The One When Seska Reprograms The Holodeck." "The One When Chakotay Doesn't Do Anything."

 

[Harvey]

"The One With The Alien Boothby".

"In The Flesh"

"The One When Seska Reprograms The Holodeck."

"Worst Case Scenario"

"The One When Chakotay Doesn't Do Anything."

"Seasons 4-7"

 

[sidious618]

As far as titles go I love BSG's and The Shield's. This might make a good thread topic...

 

[DevilEyes]

BattleStar Galatica- After the Valley of Darkness the show went fucking downhill.

That's an opinion I don't often hear. I am surprised you feel that way, since IMO BSG was at its best after the episode you mention - in season 2 (apart from 2 or 3 standalones) particularly with the Pegasus trilogy, Downloaded and the finale Lay Down Your Burdens 1/2 and the New Caprica trilogy at the start of season 3.

Unfortunately, at that point it did start going downhill, although with flashes of brilliance. The writers got lost in all the mysteries and mythology they didn't really know how to resolve.

 

[Triskelion]

"The One With The Alien Boothby".

"In The Flesh"

"The One When Seska Reprograms The Holodeck."

"Worst Case Scenario"

"The One When Chakotay Doesn't Do Anything."

"Seasons 4-7"

LOL!

 

[Australis]

^ Agreed

 

[Timewalker]

Sliders got really bad after they killed Arturo. It was all downhill from there.

Yep. It was still marginally watchable while Sabrina Lloyd was there, and I could even sort of enjoy it while Jerry O'Connell was still part of the cast... but the last season was utter crap. As far as I'm concerned, the Kro-Maggs ruined the show. If they absolutely had to be one of the bad guys, it should only have been in one episode.

And don't get me started on the atrocity that introduced Kari Wuhrer's character...

I've seen mention of Xena. I lost serious interest in that show after they introduced Julius Caesar and subsequently screwed up the entire Julio-Claudian dynasty plus got waaay too preachy with the E'li/Jesus + the angels crap. I did watch the entire series out of curiosity to see how it ended, but it was far from satisfying. At least with Hercules, he and Iolaus wandered off into the sunset, but Gabrielle never even fulfilled Xena's final wish to be buried in Amphipolis before she decided to trot off to Egypt (and why bother with that place - by that time it was just another province in the Roman Empire).

Regarding Star Trek: Both TNG and DS9 lost their fun for me when they became The Klingon Soap Opera shows.

One show nobody has mentioned yet (and this is going back quite awhile) is The Tomorrow People (the original series, not the "New" Tomorrow People). I thoroughly enjoyed the early seasons, and my favorite character was Stephen. But when the last season came along - and the show was thoroughly dumbed down - I felt really cheated. I mean, really - these hyper-gifted young people who faced down nuclear missiles and international spies were menaced by evil balloons?!

Virtually every show that lasted more than one season falls under this category. It's the very rare show that is still going strong (quality-wise) when it goes off the air.

I nominate M*A*S*H. There was nothing whatsoever wrong with that show when it ended. It was still terrific.

 

[Bluesteel]

BattleStar Galatica- After the Valley of Darkness the show went fucking downhill.

That's an opinion I don't often hear. I am surprised you feel that way, since IMO BSG was at its best after the episode you mention - in season 2 (apart from 2 or 3 standalones) particularly with the Pegasus trilogy, Downloaded and the finale Lay Down Your Burdens 1/2 and the New Caprica trilogy at the start of season 3.

Unfortunately, at that point it did start going downhill, although with flashes of brilliance. The writers got lost in all the mysteries and mythology they didn't really know how to resolve.

After Valley of Darkness the show went downhill for me personally because it wasn't consistent. You'll get episodes that are good at the beginning but then crap at the end. The ending to the coup/mutiny was a major let down. The way Admiral Cain was died was crap. How the fuck did a Cylon that everybody knows manage to sneak in to the Captains quarters? With a gun! Season 2 and S3 was basically just a whole lot of episodes with nothing much happening in them. Stupid unrealistic storylines,boring episodes and the sex. Oh god I how much I hated it. All it did was emphasis to me that Moore and the guys ran out of ideas and were trying to distract me with a pseudo-softcore porn. I wasn't impressed.

 

[DevilEyes]

Regarding Star Trek: Both TNG and DS9 lost their fun for me when they became The Klingon Soap Opera shows.

And when was that?

 

[Timewalker]

Regarding Star Trek: Both TNG and DS9 lost their fun for me when they became The Klingon Soap Opera shows.

And when was that?

I never did like Worf. I liked him a whole lot less when both shows kept emphasizing Klingon politics, Klingon "honor", raktajino, Klingon opera, and since I already didn't like Jadzia, having the soap opera of her and Worf courting and marrying, it was all TOO MUCH.

Yes, the Klingons have their legitimate place in the Star Trek universe, but both shows came to rely far too much on them. There were lots of other potential stories that went unexplored because somebody decided they couldn't do without yet another episode of the Captain getting involved in Klingon stuff.

 

[Awesome Possum]

BattleStar Galatica- After the Valley of Darkness the show went fucking downhill.

That's an opinion I don't often hear. I am surprised you feel that way, since IMO BSG was at its best after the episode you mention - in season 2 (apart from 2 or 3 standalones) particularly with the Pegasus trilogy, Downloaded and the finale Lay Down Your Burdens 1/2 and the New Caprica trilogy at the start of season 3.

Unfortunately, at that point it did start going downhill, although with flashes of brilliance. The writers got lost in all the mysteries and mythology they didn't really know how to resolve.

After Valley of Darkness the show went downhill for me personally because it wasn't consistent. You'll get episodes that are good at the beginning but then crap at the end. The ending to the coup/mutiny was a major let down. The way Admiral Cain was died was crap. How the fuck did a Cylon that everybody knows manage to sneak in to the Captains quarters? With a gun! Season 2 and S3 was basically just a whole lot of episodes with nothing much happening in them. Stupid unrealistic storylines,boring episodes and the sex. Oh god I how much I hated it. All it did was emphasis to me that Moore and the guys ran out of ideas and were trying to distract me with a pseudo-softcore porn. I wasn't impressed.

Given her knowledge of the ship's layout and computer networks. She could have disabled cameras and could have known different paths to get there.

 

[Bluesteel]

That's an opinion I don't often hear. I am surprised you feel that way, since IMO BSG was at its best after the episode you mention - in season 2 (apart from 2 or 3 standalones) particularly with the Pegasus trilogy, Downloaded and the finale Lay Down Your Burdens 1/2 and the New Caprica trilogy at the start of season 3.

Unfortunately, at that point it did start going downhill, although with flashes of brilliance. The writers got lost in all the mysteries and mythology they didn't really know how to resolve.

After Valley of Darkness the show went downhill for me personally because it wasn't consistent. You'll get episodes that are good at the beginning but then crap at the end. The ending to the coup/mutiny was a major let down. The way Admiral Cain was died was crap. How the fuck did a Cylon that everybody knows manage to sneak in to the Captains quarters? With a gun! Season 2 and S3 was basically just a whole lot of episodes with nothing much happening in them. Stupid unrealistic storylines,boring episodes and the sex. Oh god I how much I hated it. All it did was emphasis to me that Moore and the guys ran out of ideas and were trying to distract me with a pseudo-softcore porn. I wasn't impressed.

Given her knowledge of the ship's layout and computer networks. She could have disabled cameras and could have known different paths to get there.

Logically I think after finding out that a cylon had access to the Battlestar. The first thing to do would be to change the system so that any knowledge she has will be useless to the other cylons and then rape her.

Either way. Nobody noticed anything weird going on near the captains quarters? No security guards to protect the Admiral?

 

[Mysterion]

Andromeda.
WTF?

My perennial favourite. Given what Robert Hewitt Wolfe revealed he had planned for the show's five-season arc, I'm sure if he had stayed in charge the series would have developed the cult following that surrounded B5. He really had a good handle on the show's epic metaphysics and a pretty solid character arc for all of the leads, as well as an impressively fleshed out space opera universe.

Sure, the first season was cheesy, had a hammy lead, low production values, poor SFX, occasionally terrible dialogue* and can charitably be described as uneven, but then, so can B5's first season. Hewitt-Wolfe getting kicked out and the series descending into schlocky Hercules in Space adventure, well... yeah.

Damn, damn shame.

*However, Tyr Anasazi's exclamation "They were playing Wagner. It's the most fun I've had in about six months.", (when referring to fighting a bunch of robots) is a pretty awesome line in context. But then, Tyr in S1 got most of the show's best lines.

QFT.

Andromeda makes me sad for all the wasted potential of the series. Despite the $1.99 budget, there is so much in the first two years of that series that could have developed into some really great stuff down the line.

sigh

 

[RandyS]

I nominate M*A*S*H. There was nothing whatsoever wrong with that show when it ended. It was still terrific.

True, MASH did have alot of good things going for it when it ended, but I didn't care for the reversal of focus. When it started, it was a comedy with dramatic overtones, and by the time it ended, it was a drama with comedic overtones. I always thought it worked better as originally concieved.

 

[I am not Spock]

Hmmm.....I thought Buffy was OK in Season 7, but not nearly as good as it had been in its early years. Same goes for pretty much every other SF/F show I've enjoyed, from B5 to BSG to TNG, DS9, Farscape.....others, like X-Files, were notably worse than just "OK" by the end.

In fact, I'm struggling to think of a single show (from any genre, really) that I thought was firing on cylinders when it went off the air. (Aside from those that only lasted one season.)

Good point. Are there ANY genre shows where someone can honestly say the last season was the best? Excluding single season shows, like Firefly, Lone Gunmen, etc.

 

[Triskelion]

Enterprise.