When did Star Trek jump the shark?
- Thread starter MontgomeryScott
- Start date
Oh god no. That would only make it worse
Excellent advice.
For me ENT jumped with the pilot. As soon as I heard that the Klingon's name was Klang I could her a metal trash can lid being slammed down and echoing endlessly (they actually called the fucking Klingon Klang?).
Him and his brother Klick do a subspace radio show called "Starship Talk" on KPR (Klingon Public Radio)
Looking across 45 years, I don't think Star Trek jumped the shark as a whole so much as it jumped and unjumped. Or changed directions, sometimes gradually.
Each season of TOS was different, and I personally wouldn't go so far as to say it jumped the shark in the third season but I recognize the first two seasons were better. And I know many consider the first season to be the best, but my favorite is the second.
Star Trek on TV jumped the shark with TNG's first season. Except for a handful of episodes, I think it's almost completely unwatchable. Then it unjumped in the second season -- unjumped further in the third season to the point where it was a reverse summersault -- then stayed in position through the fourth season. The fifth season wavered a bit, then the sixth season had a spike part of the way through, then jumped to degree in the seventh season.
DS9's first season was okay, the second season was more interesting, the third season held its own but wasn't as good as the second, the fourth season was one of my favorites, then the fifth, sixth, and seventh seasons remained at the same level of quality.
VOY was like New England weather, which is where I'm from. Don't like the quality of the series? Wait a week. That's a bit of a jump.
ENT, which I've now seen most of, was somewhat interesting in the first season, very bland in the second, had some good episodes in the third but there are several parts I couldn't take seriously, and the fourth season was the series finally taking itself seriously as a prequel. I was interested in what happened, even if soemtimes it was like fitting a square peg into a circle. So this was an unjumping, but it was too little, too late.
I like TMP and TWOK for very different reasons but that's a drastic change of direction, not at shark-jump. TSFS is inferior but I wouldn't say the film franchise took a jump here. TVH, you either love or hate. It converted me over 20 years ago, so there's that. Except for TUC and FC, the next six movies were kind of lame. Then came ST XI which, whether you love or hate it, you have to admit shook things up. I enjoyed ST XI and I'm interested to see what happens next but I don't think it's the greatest invention since the wheel, as its made out to be sometimes, and it's not beyond criticism.
A roundabout way of saying I think Star Trek goes up and down.
Each season of TOS was different, and I personally wouldn't go so far as to say it jumped the shark in the third season but I recognize the first two seasons were better. And I know many consider the first season to be the best, but my favorite is the second.
Star Trek on TV jumped the shark with TNG's first season. Except for a handful of episodes, I think it's almost completely unwatchable. Then it unjumped in the second season -- unjumped further in the third season to the point where it was a reverse summersault -- then stayed in position through the fourth season. The fifth season wavered a bit, then the sixth season had a spike part of the way through, then jumped to degree in the seventh season.
DS9's first season was okay, the second season was more interesting, the third season held its own but wasn't as good as the second, the fourth season was one of my favorites, then the fifth, sixth, and seventh seasons remained at the same level of quality.
VOY was like New England weather, which is where I'm from. Don't like the quality of the series? Wait a week. That's a bit of a jump.
ENT, which I've now seen most of, was somewhat interesting in the first season, very bland in the second, had some good episodes in the third but there are several parts I couldn't take seriously, and the fourth season was the series finally taking itself seriously as a prequel. I was interested in what happened, even if soemtimes it was like fitting a square peg into a circle. So this was an unjumping, but it was too little, too late.
I like TMP and TWOK for very different reasons but that's a drastic change of direction, not at shark-jump. TSFS is inferior but I wouldn't say the film franchise took a jump here. TVH, you either love or hate. It converted me over 20 years ago, so there's that. Except for TUC and FC, the next six movies were kind of lame. Then came ST XI which, whether you love or hate it, you have to admit shook things up. I enjoyed ST XI and I'm interested to see what happens next but I don't think it's the greatest invention since the wheel, as its made out to be sometimes, and it's not beyond criticism.
A roundabout way of saying I think Star Trek goes up and down.
Yeah, that totally helped.
number6
Vice Admiral
I don't think any of you know the meaning of "jump the shark" or how to apply it to the Star Trek franchise. I am not even sure it applies at all. All series had high and low points, but never one defining moment where the quality never recovered and continued to spiral downward as a result of lack of interest or good ideas.
At the end of the day this thread is more about "my show was better," than which show jumped the shark. IMO, the term doesn't work.
At the end of the day this thread is more about "my show was better," than which show jumped the shark. IMO, the term doesn't work.
Indeed, when did the quality go bad and not recover is the question, it not jumping the shark if the quality recovers later on.
I simply don't agree with this, it is a matter of opinion, IMO the quality did decline, and never did recover and everything else you said with Voyager. Not bashing the show, but there was already a quality Trek show on the air in DS9 and splitting the troops and diluting the franchise was a shark jumping moment for me and I think many more.
number6
Vice Admiral
If we were to use the Happy Days analogy.. That would be like saying that Happy Days was great when they spun off Laverne and Shirley and Mork and Mindy, but jumped the shark with Joanie Loves Chachi. This analogy doesn't work, because they are different series with different strengths and ideas.
For me the shark jumping moment has to a totally absurd event/stunt like....Fonzi ( in a leather jacket!) on water skis, jumping over a shark!!!!!! The whole scenerio is miles away from the original premise of Happy Days and is such a bizarre image that stinks of desperation, you have to scratch your head and say "What were they thinking?". I think when ever a sitcom sends its characters on vacation to an exotic local ( as in the Happy Days episode) they are getting close to a shark jump. Dramas are a bit different.
ETA: With Star Trek its even harder, because by its nature "absurd" and "bizarre" are part of the premise. Spock with no brain and salamander babies are just bad episodes, not a shark jump.
ETA: With Star Trek its even harder, because by its nature "absurd" and "bizarre" are part of the premise. Spock with no brain and salamander babies are just bad episodes, not a shark jump.
number6
Vice Admiral
But that's not what Jump the Shark means. You have redefined it. Happy Days did that as a ratings stunt, which failed and the audience and quality of the show declined and never recovered.. This is also similar to the Cousin Oliver Method which performed the same function. Under those terms, Star Trek never really did that.
Here's a more complete definition:
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/jump-the-shark.html
Here's a more complete definition:
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/jump-the-shark.html
I dont think we disagree.
Actually, I thought it was "Lame-Galaxy-Quest-like-aliens-want-peaceful-planet-and-secure-Federation's-help" that covered that concept.
(That or "human clone uses slaves to take over Romulan Empire and then comes for revenge on... himself.")
(That or "human clone uses slaves to take over Romulan Empire and then comes for revenge on... himself.")
The Jump the Shark concept has taken on a life of it's own since the Happy Days episode.
I think it's come to mean plot ideas that are so outrageous -or something that's been done to death to boost ratings.
Case in point- ratings are low, so have a baby, or bring a cute little kid-like Voyager bringing on the Borg children.
Or the inevitable time travel episode.
Or shrinking down to size.
Or growing old very fast.
Or becoming children again....
Or.... .............
I think it's come to mean plot ideas that are so outrageous -or something that's been done to death to boost ratings.
Case in point- ratings are low, so have a baby, or bring a cute little kid-like Voyager bringing on the Borg children.
Or the inevitable time travel episode.
Or shrinking down to size.
Or growing old very fast.
Or becoming children again....
Or.... .............
For Star Trek that would be just another season.
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