When did ST move into an alternate universe to our own?

[junkdata]

At what point did ST canon move into an alternate universe to our own, and what are the major differences and the confirmed similarities?

IIRC the starting point of TOS, showed a world identical to our own up until the 60s, that had been developed past the point of that era.

Obviously ST in 1990s, showed a world that was an alternate universe to our own, that was identical until 1960s, with a few alterations through time travel previous to that era, and a whole lot of stuff that had happened in ST universe, but not our one.

To simplify this, for people who arent following - in ST canon JFK was president in the early 60s, but there was no Bill Clinton because we were all fighting eugenics wars in the 90s...

This is something that happens often in prophetic fiction, with Terminators original world war date sometime in 1997. Obviously in that franchise, its possible to push the date back, but in this one the success of the show carried it far beyond its own future hallmarks.

This lack of Eugenics wars is something that we are obviously missing from the show.

Another example of ST living in an alternate universe is perhaps a more surprising one. As crazy as some of the inventions of ST looked and look now, some of them are outdated by moores law even now.

Things like Data that seemed absolutely incredible in 1990, now seem to be slack as f___ if thats all we have in the way of androids in the future. Siri has legitimate advantages over Data now. The mobile phone revolution and computer revolution, make even TNG monitors and hardware look old.

ST is truly a victim of its own success in a few ways.

If there is a shared history up until the 60s, what do we share with the ST world since then, and what are the major differences?

 

[Melakon]

My guess would be September 8, 1966, when "The Man Trap" became the first episode to air. The Star Trek television series doesn't seem to have ever existed in the Star Trek Universe.

 

[Nerys Myk]

99% of the time Star Trek is written as if it was the future of our universe. So it's always
"in our Universe".

 

[junkdata]

99% of the time Star Trek is written as if it was the future of our universe. So it's always
"in our Universe".

Not really. Some of the biggest cultural underpinnings of ST universe, simply haven't happened in our universe and the dates for these things elapsed over 25 years ago.

The Eugenics Wars (or the Great Wars) were a series of conflicts fought on Earth between 1992 and 1996. The result of a scientific attempt to improve the Human race through selective breeding and genetic engineering, the wars devastated parts of Earth, by some estimates officially causing some 30 million deaths, and nearly plunging the planet into a new Dark Age. (TOS: "Space Seed"; ENT: "Borderland")

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Eugenics_Wars

My guess would be September 8, 1966, when "The Man Trap" became the first episode to air. The Star Trek television series doesn't seem to have ever existed in the Star Trek Universe.

That's allowed. Obviously.

You are referring to one of the biggest conundrums in fiction and of course there's a name for it, but of course its allowed. Along with 555 telephone numbers and ACME industries.

 

[Melakon]

Before American phone numbers were all numeric, 555 was sometimes represented as the exchange KLondike 5. It shows up a few times in 50s and 60s television.

 

[T'Girl]

In Bread and Circus, Spock's figure for the dead in WWI could be him referring only to military deaths, but his figure for WWII dead is totally off.

Or Spock simply didn't know what he was talking about.

but there was no Bill Clinton because we were all fighting eugenics wars in the 90s

Why no Bill Clinton in the 90's? Unless you feel the growing military crisis stemming from the "supermen" resulted in George Bush's re-election in 1992.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I like Greg Cox's spin on the Eugenics Wars, in which the conceit is that they do more or less take place "in our universe," but the public at large is completely unaware of them and completely unaware of how Treknology from the future is used to build and launch the Botany Bay. It's like a secret war involving puppet masters. I hope that's not too spoilery.

 

[BillJ]

In 1968, the U.S. was launching an orbital nuclear weapons platform into orbit. See: "Assignment: Earth".

 

[Smellincoffee]

What do we do with the Mars colonies, though? I'm not even sure where they came from -- obscure books, games, whatever -- but I've seen Mars being settled in the 1990s and later proclaiming its independence from Earth.

 

[SiddFinch1]

About 2000 years ago when the romans were taken off planet by the preservers and became the magma romii. Butterflies away and differences occur

 

[Nerys Myk]

99% of the time Star Trek is written as if it was the future of our universe. So it's always
"in our Universe".

Not really. Some of the biggest cultural underpinnings of ST universe, simply haven't happened in our universe and the dates for these things elapsed over 25 years ago.

The Eugenics Wars (or the Great Wars) were a series of conflicts fought on Earth between 1992 and 1996. The result of a scientific attempt to improve the Human race through selective breeding and genetic engineering, the wars devastated parts of Earth, by some estimates officially causing some 30 million deaths, and nearly plunging the planet into a new Dark Age. (TOS: "Space Seed"; ENT: "Borderland")

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Eugenics_Wars

My guess would be September 8, 1966, when "The Man Trap" became the first episode to air. The Star Trek television series doesn't seem to have ever existed in the Star Trek Universe.

That's allowed. Obviously.

You are referring to one of the biggest conundrums in fiction and of course there's a name for it, but of course its allowed. Along with 555 telephone numbers and ACME industries.

Borderland is part of the one percent, obviously. Usually when our heroes visit "today" it is very much like the modern world. STIV, Carpenter St, Assignment Earth, Tomorrow Is Yesterday and that Voyager episode all took place in what looked like our universe. Historical references are usually up to date as well, with one from "the future" tossed in to prove Trek takes place there.

 

[sojourner]

At least as far back as the death of Edith Keeler.

 

[Last Redshirt]

Pretty sure that when Voyager visited the 'present' in Future's End, the Eugenics War wasn't raging on.

Honestly, I don't think that it is such a stretch to suggest that it was just retconned forward. There was a lot of stuff in TOS that was just plain cut out, so I don't see the problem in it being shifted around.

The way I see it, the Eugenics War was fused together with World War III, and those took place sometime between 2020s and 2060ish.

 

[T'Girl]

In 1968, the U.S. was launching an orbital nuclear weapons platform into orbit. See: "Assignment: Earth".

Ever see the movie "Space Cowboys?"

 

[Nerys Myk]

In 1968, the U.S. was launching an orbital nuclear weapons platform into orbit. See: "Assignment: Earth".

Dude, you're gonna bring the wrath of the NSA down on your ass.

 

[The Wormhole]

Pretty sure that when Voyager visited the 'present' in Future's End, the Eugenics War wasn't raging on.

Although you do see a model of the DY-100 class in Rain Robinson's office. On the other hand, there's also a Talosian action figure.

The way I see it, the Eugenics War was fused together with World War III, and those took place sometime between 2020s and 2060ish.

The Eugenics Wars are constantly referred to as being in the 20th century, even Enterprise and STID did this despite being productions of the 21st century.

 

[BillJ]

The Eugenics Wars are constantly referred to as being in the 20th century, even Enterprise and STID did this despite being productions of the 21st centuries.

Without a doubt.

Trek lore pretty firmly places the Eugenics War in the late-20th century. Spock gives exact years the conflict took place (1992-96).

 

[LordMudd]

I believe that to understand the nature of alternate universes, you must have read X-Men from the Days of Future Past story on, and understood it.

CCC.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The Eugenics Wars are constantly referred to as being in the 20th century, even Enterprise and STID did this despite being productions of the 21st centuries.

Without a doubt.

Trek lore pretty firmly places the Eugenics War in the late-20th century. Spock gives exact years the conflict took place (1992-96).

I've always wondered what was going through the writers' heads when they came up with those dates, less than 30 years from their present.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The Eugenics Wars are constantly referred to as being in the 20th century, even Enterprise and STID did this despite being productions of the 21st centuries.

Without a doubt.

Trek lore pretty firmly places the Eugenics War in the late-20th century. Spock gives exact years the conflict took place (1992-96).

I've always wondered what was going through the writers' heads when they came up with those dates, less than 30 years from the present.

That's a good question.

All I could ever figure is that they did it to play off of fears about real world issues, both as a way of making the show intriguing and to strike the chord that mankind will be able to ultimately resolve present-day social issues.

Also, they were probably thinking that they'd be lucky to be on the air in three years, let alone remembered and analyzed after thirty.