When did Discovery JUMP the Shark?

[Farscape One]

When the dust settles, I think the general consensus for the best seasons of Discovery will be Seasons 1 and 5. People who like what the show started off as the most will prefer Season 1. People who like what the show ultimately became the most will prefer Season 5.

The fifth season isn't over yet, but I've seen enough now to figure this is how it's probably going to go.

Season 2 had the switch in showrunners part-way through and it's really obvious. People who say Season 2 is their favorite tend to be fans of SNW and like it as their favorite because of Pike. The most common complaints specific to Season 4 are that it dragged on, became "too emo" (neither or which are my opinion of S4, but the ones I've noticed the most), and that all the rough edges were sanded off (this one I do agree with). Season 3 crammed too much in and people will either love the cause of The Burn or hate it, and they'll either like The Burn in and of itself or hate it.

Interestingly, I think season 2 is the second worst in the franchise, behind only PICARD season 2. And I absolutely love SNW.

Season 1 was just a disaster, but it did at least bring STAR TREK back to tv, so I give it credit there. (Pretty much the same feelings I have for STAR TREK '09.)

I agree that season 4 dragged too much, but at least it was the first (and so far, only season) to stick the landing. Season 3 flowed a bit better overall than season 4, but the Burn's cause really destroyed the ending.

So far, season 5 is better than either 3 or 4 at the moment... it's feeling like a slight slump, but it is nowhere near as bad as season 4's slump.

I have a feeling you are right... that season 5 will be looked at as the best season. (Still have 5 more episodes to go, so I hope they don't find a way to screw it up.)

 

[Nyotarules]

They jumped the shark when they jumped to the 31st century and still got employment in Starfleet.
If William Shakespeare could time travel to 2024, Hollywood should hire him as a scriptwriter

 

[James Cole]

I agree that season 4 dragged too much, but at least it was the first (and so far, only season) to stick the landing. Season 3 flowed a bit better overall than season 4, but the Burn's cause really destroyed the ending.

Look, I've never seen season 4, but one factor might be that it was the first season of this series to stick with the plan once filming began. No change in showrunner midstream, no extensive reshoots or bringing in an outside editor to salvage a season in post.

And, season 5 is the first season of this series to be produced after the departure of Julie McNamara as head of Paramount+ in mid 2021. Season 5 has the same management as season 4, but they'd be receiving very different notes.

 

[Nerys Myk]

They jumped the shark when they jumped to the 31st century and still got employment in Starfleet.
If William Shakespeare could time travel to 2024, Hollywood should hire him as a scriptwriter

Well, they're still mining his oeuvre in 2024 , so why not?

 

[Farscape One]

Look, I've never seen season 4, but one factor might be that it was the first season of this series to stick with the plan once filming began. No change in showrunner midstream, no extensive reshoots or bringing in an outside editor to salvage a season in post.

And, season 5 is the first season of this series to be produced after the departure of Julie McNamara as head of Paramount+ in mid 2021. Season 5 has the same management as season 4, but they'd be receiving very different notes.

Michelle Paradise has been in charge of the writing staff since the beginning of season 3, so season 3 also had no change in showrunner.

 

[El Maestro]

I don't think it's shark jumping so much as it is that the show seemed to be beset by behind the scenes uncertainty that has since abated a bit, but the show still suffers from a bit of an identity crisis and doesn't always know exactly what it wants to be. Also, I think the show suffers from some weaker than usual writing for the current iterations of the franchise (PIC S2 notwithstanding), and this can look like shark jumping because of inconsistency and a sense that the writers don't necessarily know what they want to do with the characters and stories. When they do seem to know, the ideas are not always fully fleshed out or well constructed. Exhibit A: The Burn. Finally, the show seems to be taking a direction toward prioritizing the foregrounding of therapy culture and issues relating to mental health. This is not, in a vacuum, a bad thing, but it is not always handled deftly or with or with grace.

 

[James Cole]

Michelle Paradise has been in charge of the writing staff since the beginning of season 3, so season 3 also had no change in showrunner.

Yes, but season 3 did have reshoots and brought in an outside editor to salvage the season in post

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yes, but season 3 did have reshoots and brought in an outside editor to salvage the season in post

You sure seem to know a lot about a show you don't care for.

 

[Farscape One]

I don't think it's shark jumping so much as it is that the show seemed to be beset by behind the scenes uncertainty that has since abated a bit, but the show still suffers from a bit of an identity crisis and doesn't always know exactly what it wants to be. Also, I think the show suffers from some weaker than usual writing for the current iterations of the franchise (PIC S2 notwithstanding), and this can look like shark jumping because of inconsistency and a sense that the writers don't necessarily know what they want to do with the characters and stories. When they do seem to know, the ideas are not always fully fleshed out or well constructed. Exhibit A: The Burn. Finally, the show seems to be taking a direction toward prioritizing the foregrounding of therapy culture and issues relating to mental health. This is not, in a vacuum, a bad thing, but it is not always handled deftly or with or with grace.

Bolding what I am responding to.

Yeah, it sure seems like much of their arcs are NOT fully thought through. The Burn's cause is one example, as is the meandering of most of the middle of season 4.

Also agreed about the writing seeming like they have a shrink on staff who they have to have look through each script to make sure it's therapy driven enough for their tastes. It really brings down a lot of the scenes where a crisis is occuring with a real ticking clock. Completely takes it out of realism.

Therapy and those chats are good, but not in the middle of an emergency where seconds really DO count. There's a time and a place for that, and it's after you take care of the current crisis. That's one of the differences between an amateur and a professional (which all these Starfleet officers are supposed to be).

 

[James Cole]

You sure seem to know a lot about a show you don't care for.

To use a sports analogy, you can be a fan of the league without being a fan of a specific team.

And the same question could easily be raised to the PICARD season 3 critics...

 

[Nerys Myk]

To use a sports analogy, you can be a fan of the league without being a fan of a specific team.

And the same question could easily be raised to the PICARD season 3 critics...

I know nothing of the behind the scenes of PIC3. (and frankly don't care) I just know I didn’t like what made it to the screen. And that's all that matters to me. I'm not going to do a deep dive into something I dislike to "prove something". Seems a waste of time.

 

[James Cole]

I know nothing of the behind the scenes of PIC3. (and frankly don't care) I just know I didn’t like what made it to the screen. And that's all that matters to me. I'm not going to do a deep dive into something I dislike to "prove something". Seems a waste of time.

I've always been interested in the behind the scenes of films, TV series, and franchises I like. I wouldn't call an hour spent cumulatively looking into season 3 as wasting time.

Now, this BBS on the other hand. That is wasting time...

 

[Lord Garth]

If it's clear I'm not going to like something, I won't spend 10 hours watching it.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I've always been interested in the behind the scenes of films, TV series, and franchises I like. I wouldn't call an hour spent cumulatively looking into season 3 as wasting time.

Now, this BBS on the other hand. That is wasting time...

Nah, talking with people about things you like is never a waste of time.
I’m more interested in the creative side. Writing, sets, makeup and design than any backstage drama.

 

[Tiran O'Saurus]

Finally, the show seems to be taking a direction toward prioritizing the foregrounding of therapy culture and issues relating to mental health. This is not, in a vacuum, a bad thing, but it is not always handled deftly or with or with grace.

As opposed to TNG, with one of the regular stars being a therapist?

 

[James Cole]

As opposed to TNG, with one of the regular stars being a therapist?

On the GEN commentary, Moore and Braga joke Joe Menosky said that this is the single greatest thing that will date TNG

 

[Farscape One]

As opposed to TNG, with one of the regular stars being a therapist?

Troi was not utilized very well, overall.

On the GEN commentary, Moore and Braga joke Joe Menosky said that this is the single greatest thing that will date TNG

Menosky was right. It is one of the biggest things that dates it.

 

[Mr Awe]

Ranking seasons of this show seems to be far more varied than any other Star Trek series.

I was making this point earlier in this thread. Discovery seems much more varied than other ST series. And correspondingly people's opinions of it vary more as well. In fact, many viewers identify multiple eras in the show.

Of course, you then have some people claiming it was consistent all the time! Ironically, they're just part of the larger variability in attitudes towards Discovery!

 

[Mr Awe]

They jumped the shark when they jumped to the 31st century and still got employment in Starfleet.
If William Shakespeare could time travel to 2024, Hollywood should hire him as a scriptwriter

To be fair, if Shakespeare arrives in the present and wrote a film script, it would be a blockbuster due to curiosity alone!

 

[Mr Awe]

Yes, but season 3 did have reshoots and brought in an outside editor to salvage the season in post

I'm not sure that "salvage" is the word I'd use unless you add "attempted" before it.