What'sthe worst example of a character being"dumbed down"to explain...

[t_smitts]

...something to the audience?

I think a particularly embarrassing example was Troi in "Disaster". I get that they were trying to show her as being inexperienced at first, but still, counselor or not, I can't believe you can become a lieutenant commander and a senior officer on a starship without at least some understanding of how a starship works. Having Ro and O'Brien have to explain how emergency bulkheads work was a bit of a stretch, but I can't believe they actually have to explain to her what a containment breach means.

 

[Melakon]

Re: What'sthe worst example of a character being"dumbed down"to explai

Characters were dumbed down all the time so that Data could explain something.

 

[Amaris]

Re: What'sthe worst example of a character being"dumbed down"to explai

Characters were dumbed down all the time so that Data could explain something.

Hell, even Data was dumbed down every once in a while. For me, though, it definitely has to be Troi. That poor woman was used to explain everything for the benefit of the audience.

 

[Timo]

Re: What'sthe worst example of a character being"dumbed down"to explai

To be fair, it was an in-universe dumbing down for the most part - Ro was insulting Troi in order to discredit her right to command.

Ro and O'Brien bombard poor Troi with technobabble regarding the ship's impending doom. They are speaking past her, in order to argue with each other, which isn't doing any good in the situation. Troi asks a perfectly legitimate question to stop the barrage: "Give me the bottom line - what does this mean in practice?". When Ro retorts with "The ship will explode, doh!", it's not in answer to Troi's query, which was about cutting to the chase and getting, you know, a recommendation for a course of action or something. It's merely a slap in her face.

That Troi doesn't deem the comment worth a response doesn't paint her as a simpleton, quite the opposite.

As for Troi not understanding emergency bulkheads, it's rather a case of her not knowing the shorthand. When the two clowns say "Confinement mode" and "Isolation protocol" with knowing voices, they aren't offering relevant information in a practical manner - they are again ignoring their CO. Although that's more excusable here, because they have not yet realized that Troi is the officer in charge. It's only from that point on that a power struggle begins, with O'Brien trying to shoehorn Troi to the top position and oust Ro, and Troi wisely managing the situation so that Ro's blatantly insulting "Counselor" slowly gains more respecting nuances.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: What'sthe worst example of a character being"dumbed down"to explai

Not actually dumbing down a specific character, but First Contact is the worst example of blatantly explaining things for an audience of non-Trekkies. For example, Picard's Captain's Log at the beginning he says "the Borg, our most feared enemy" is obviously for the benefit of any non-fans watching. And in universe it makes no sense, the admiral at Starfleet Command reviewing the log is going to know who the Borg are, so why does Picard need to explain they're the most feared enemy.

Also, later on when the Borg make their getaway through the temporal vortex, Picard takes a couple of minutes to explain what has happened "they're travelled back in time, changed history. I must follow them back and undo the damage" before actually giving the order to pursue them through the vortex. Aren't Captains supposed to give orders and expect the crew to follow without question? And further more, everyone around him has just seen the Borg ship go through what Data just described as a temporal vortex and what someone else has helpfully explained means time travel, and have also seen Earth get turned into a Borg planet. They don't need all this explained for them and have their instructions outlined for them, they just need to know if they should follow or not. But it's great Picard thinks of anyone watching these events not directly involved.

 

[Shik]

Re: What'sthe worst example of a character being"dumbed down"to explai

TUC. The whole movie, where three experienced command-level officers have to be led around by the nostrils by the Vulcan (who actually gets fooled for a bit by the other Vulcan), as well as actually forgetting the requisties of their past & current duties. The head of communications can't speak an almost-necessary language & has to resort to lugging out actual large paper books? A former security chief can't remember that phaser fire activates alarms? Were they being stood down due to Alzheimer's? Had they the brainworms?

 

[SiddFinch1]

Re: What'sthe worst example of a character being"dumbed down"to explai

TUC. The whole movie, where three experienced command-level officers have to be led around by the nostrils by the Vulcan (who actually gets fooled for a bit by the other Vulcan), as well as actually forgetting the requisties of their past & current duties. The head of communications can't speak an almost-necessary language & has to resort to lugging out actual large paper books? A former security chief can't remember that phaser fire activates alarms? Were they being stood down due to Alzheimer's? Had they the brainworms?

Yep. Uhura and Chekov were both portrayed as fairly incompetent. Annoying. Particularly Uhura not speaking Klingon.

The phaser thing i could buy as a recent change he forgot about

 

[Maurice]

Re: What'sthe worst example of a character being"dumbed down"to explai

Aside: J. Allen: Great avatar!

 

[Armored Saint]

Re: What'sthe worst example of a character being"dumbed down"to explai

Indeed for Chekov and Scotty about alarms, since it was for explaining why they couldn't simply waporize things on the ship.

In case of Uhura, it was to show an obstacle, not to show something. May I also remind you that kinds of linguistic problems weren't present in Trek until The Search for Spock?

 

[Avro Arrow]

Re: What'sthe worst example of a character being"dumbed down"to explai

The head of communications can't speak an almost-necessary language & has to resort to lugging out actual large paper books?

To be fair, I don't believe it was every mentioned anywhere that PrimeUhura was a master of different languages, like NuUhura is. With the ubiquitousness of translator technology in Starfleet, would there really even be that much of a demand for people who could actually speak other languages?

By way of comparison: in a present-day military, when deployed away from their home country, is the person who operates the communications equipment also usually a translator, or are they two separate positions?

That being said... of course they should have been able to request the translations from the computer without resorting to physical paper books. That part *was* dumb!

 

[Amaris]

Re: What'sthe worst example of a character being"dumbed down"to explai

^ Yeah, the part where they say "the universal translator would be recognized."

Really? From what I've see on the show and in various films, the universal translator is damned near flawless!

Aside: J. Allen: Great avatar!

Thank you! Carl Anderson was a truly awesome performer, and what a voice!

 

[Maurice]

Re: What'sthe worst example of a character being"dumbed down"to explai

A good friend of mine got to work with Carl on a play an said he was a lovely man.

 

[Timo]

Re: What'sthe worst example of a character being"dumbed down"to explai

Really? From what I've see on the show and in various films, the universal translator is damned near flawless!

Which might be why it gets recognized...

I don't quite get why ST:FC would be an outstanding example of dumbing down. After all, each and every Captain's Log in TOS amounted to the same thing: spelling out things for an audience that isn't expected to know the first thing about Starfleet or the Federation.

I wonder if this could be an in-universe feature rather than a bug? Perhaps we did get to hear logs intended for overspaces distribution, rather than logs intended for Kirk's superiors or UFP audiences.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[EnriqueH]

Re: What'sthe worst example of a character being"dumbed down"to explai

The head of communications can't speak an almost-necessary language & has to resort to lugging out actual large paper books?

To be fair, I don't believe it was every mentioned anywhere that PrimeUhura was a master of different languages, like NuUhura is. With the ubiquitousness of translator technology in Starfleet, would there really even be that much of a demand for people who could actually speak other languages?

By way of comparison: in a present-day military, when deployed away from their home country, is the person who operates the communications equipment also usually a translator, or are they two separate positions?

That being said... of course they should have been able to request the translations from the computer without resorting to physical paper books. That part *was* dumb!

I remember my dad, a fan from the 60s, laughing *at* that scene. When I looked at him, he looked like he was sinking in his seat. After the movie was over, he told me that scene was horrible and that it was one of the things that stood out as one of the reasons he didn't like the film.

Anyway, my understanding is that Uhura has always been the COMMUNICATIONS OFFICER. She should've known at least some rudimentary Klingon, especially since that is the Federation's sworn enemy at the time and she was serving as the communications officer on the Federation flagship for more or less 20-25 years, (give or take a year for Starfleet Academy teaching gig).

The passing of books back and forth had to have been a Nick Meyer sensibility since Meyer loves books. He found a creative and in-world acceptable way of bringing them into the movie for TWOK, but the passing around of books was embarrassing. I remember thinking, "What about the universal translator?" But then Chekov, obviously dubbed in, said it would be recognized? I don't know, sounds pretty feeble to me.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

Re: What'sthe worst example of a character being"dumbed down"to explai

I never really got why so many people say that ST VI was their favorite. Sure, it's not bad, but as far as 'creaky' moments like the book one, it's right up there with ST V.

As much as I like these characters, I was sort of glad it ended when it did. To me, the wheels were starting to fall off the Star Trek 'sensibility'.

 

[EnriqueH]

Re: What'sthe worst example of a character being"dumbed down"to explai

I like ST VI too.

But it definitely had a lot of little things that bugged me.

1) The books scene

2) The predictability of Valeris. I mean, as soon as we saw her standing outside Kirk's quarters and clearing her throat. They were totally telegraphing their punches on this one.

3) The corridors and Enterprise interiors feeling claustrophobic. Kirk's quarters looked smaller than ever.

4) Music was good, but would've liked a bit more tradition in the music (Goldsmith/Horner).

5) "Once again, we've saved civilization as we know it." Breaking the fourth wall, a little full of itself, even for Kirk.

6) Go to hell. Another forced attempt at humor.

Anyway, I should shut up because I haven't seen the movie in a while and I fully intend to once I get TAS out of the way and start working on the films.

 

[wulfio]

Re: What'sthe worst example of a character being"dumbed down"to explai

Characters were dumbed down all the time so that Data could explain something.

The same could be said for everyone being dumbed down so Wesley could save the day.

 

[Cyke101]

Re: What'sthe worst example of a character being"dumbed down"to explai

Also, later on when the Borg make their getaway through the temporal vortex, Picard takes a couple of minutes to explain what has happened "they're travelled back in time, changed history. I must follow them back and undo the damage" before actually giving the order to pursue them through the vortex. Aren't Captains supposed to give orders and expect the crew to follow without question? And further more, everyone around him has just seen the Borg ship go through what Data just described as a temporal vortex and what someone else has helpfully explained means time travel, and have also seen Earth get turned into a Borg planet. They don't need all this explained for them and have their instructions outlined for them, they just need to know if they should follow or not. But it's great Picard thinks of anyone watching these events not directly involved.

Oh, I remember this because Roger Ebert himself pointed it out in his own review of the movie. When someone says "temporal vortex," Riker replies without a beat, "Time travel!" Good job, Riker. Have a cookie.

 

[mos6507]

Re: What'sthe worst example of a character being"dumbed down"to explai

Trek VI gets handled with kid-gloves by fans because we want the old cast to go out on a positive note and VI is a hell of a lot better swan-song than Trek V would have been had they never made VI. I like it, but it IS kind of a Perry Mason TV-movie with some obligatory action bolted on. Whodunnits weren't done often in Trek, so it gets points for taking a stylistic chance, but a whodunnit also just isn't the best subgenre for Trek either.

 

[dub]

Re: What'sthe worst example of a character being"dumbed down"to explai

1) The books scene

3) The corridors and Enterprise interiors feeling claustrophobic. Kirk's quarters looked smaller than ever.

Those additions to the film scream Nick Meyer. He liked to bring some tangibility to the future setting. I generally liked most of his decisions.

2) The predictability of Valeris. I mean, as soon as we saw her standing outside Kirk's quarters and clearing her throat. They were totally telegraphing their punches on this one.

I think it would have been better and certainly less predictable with Saavik. Does anyone know - did they plan to have Saavik and then just do a last-minute re-write? It sure seems that way. I'm sure many fans would have been up in arms about Saavik becoming a traitor though.

4) Music was good, but would've liked a bit more tradition in the music (Goldsmith/Horner).

I found the music to be a refreshing change. This is one of the most listened to scores I own actually. Love it.

Overall, I enjoyed TUC. I just didn't like it as a send-off film. I think TUC would have been better as Star Trek V. Then they could have come up with something more fun for VI. But I loved the signatures and the Peter Pan line. I also would have prefered Goldsmith to score the final film for this crew (not TUC).