What's with the Uniforms?

[Bry_Sinclair]

In 09 we saw Uhura favour the miniskirt, go-go boots and short-sleeved uniform option--though there were a few women who also wore longer sleeves.

Am I the only one that finds this a pretty stupid uniform option in a time when rank is denoted by braids around the cuffs? I know in TOS it was rare to find a female on the crew who wasn't a yeoman and therefore didn't have rank (maybe a slight exaggeration there), but why have a uniform that can't display their status?

Does it also mean that in the next Nu-Trek movie we'll have a few gun shows from the male crewmembers?

 

[ROBE]

Star Trek has never been great with ranks.
Why no rank insignia for ensigns, petty officers or chief petty officers?
Only the original movies had proper ranks and ratings insignia.

PS McCoy in TOS often had a short sleaved uniform with no rank stripes.

 

[ROBE]

Star Trek has never been great with ranks.
Why no rank insignia for ensigns, petty officers or chief petty officers?
Only the original movies had proper ranks and ratings insignia.

PS McCoy in TOS often had a short sleaved uniform with no rank stripes.

 

[The Wormhole]

TOS had plenty of female officers, and yeoman is a title, not a rank.

But as for why the female officers in Trek XI wear uniforms with no sleeves and therefore no way to display their rank, it's unfortunately another example of the movie's desire to look good over making sense. Sadly, Abrams and his Cohorts are in this only to make a buck, not to be realistic in any definition of the word.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Uhura doesn't need a rank because no-one tells her what to do!

At least we know, from the leaked pics, that she will wear pants at some point in the next movie. Maybe she'll get a redshirt with sleeves and rank then.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

...it's unfortunately another example of the movie's desire to look good over making sense.

Yeah, like McCoy's aforementioned uniform variation in TOS. More important to look good in 1966 than to make sense.

Sadly, Abrams and his Cohorts are in this only to make a buck, not to be realistic in any definition of the word.

The first statement isn't so, and the second...well, there's nothing realistic about Star Trek's costuming, attitude toward rank or the military. Never has been for a moment.

 

[ROBE]

Women in the last movie had three types of ships uniform:
Short sleeve miniskirt
Long sleeve miniskirt
Long sleeve with trousers/pants

Not counting medical whites.

Star Trek has always been sloppy, except for the original movies:
WOK costume designer had officers and enlisted uniforms and insignia for ratings from Able crewman to Master chief petty officer and ensign to Fleet admiral.

 

[ROBE]

Lets me honest a real Landing Party would be lead by a lieutenant with a petty officer as deputy and the rest junior ratings, not a captain and department heads with 2 soon to be dead redshirts.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I suspect this all had to do with Roddenberry's original "non-military" aspect of Starfleet (despite the fact that Kirk himself told the Organians "I'm a soldier" in "Errand of Mercy"). Be glad at least that they're not as bad as what appeared in The Cage and WNMHGB. Those stripe combinations made no damn sense whatsoever, nor did the uniform colors.

 

[ROBE]

I always thought having medical in blue, security in red and everyone else in gold would be better.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Roddenberry didn't originally conceive Starfleet - or whatever unnamed organization the Enterprise originally represented - as non-military at all, and he referred liberally to military history and practices in his early memos and treatments for the series.

 

[137th Gebirg]

^^^ So the endless debates that have occupied the time of many a TrekBBS member about Starfleet as a non-military organization never existed?

 

[Enterprise is Great]

Starfleet only became non-military when Roddenberry went off his rocker. For whatever reason when TNG rolled around he decided it was non-military. It was TNG that had Picard stating that "Starfleet isn't the military".

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

^^^ So the endless debates that have occupied the time of many a TrekBBS member about Starfleet as a non-military organization never existed?

People can debate whatever they like. Nonetheless, the possible non-military nature of Starfleet doesn't really rear its head in TOS (unless you count Kirk's remark late in the series - "Day Of The Dove" - that "we've been trained to think in terms other than war" as evidence). Things that Roddenberry wrote before and during TOS often reference military antecedents, including his suggestion in the TOS Writer's Guide that screenwriters for the show ask themselves whether character behavior would be plausible if the story were being told on a 20th century naval vessel.

Roddenberry began using terms like "paramilitary" to describe Starfleet in the 1970s.

 

[thumbtack]

The first statement isn't so, and the second...well, there's nothing realistic about Star Trek's costuming, attitude toward rank or the military. Never has been for a moment.

He misses the sleepwear.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Be glad at least that they're not as bad as what appeared in The Cage and WNMHGB. Those stripe combinations made no damn sense whatsoever, nor did the uniform colors.

In "The Cage," one stripe meant officer, a black and gold stripe meant noncom, and no stripe meant enlisted.

In "Where No Man Has Gone Before," it was essentially the same thing, except two stripes meant captain/commanding officer.

Individual ranks still existed, but they seemed to be regarded more like titles. Position (like who was captain, first officer, chief engineer, etc.) seemed to be more important than the number of stripes on a sleeve, IMO.

As for the uniform colors, it seemed to be not that terribly different from the one used in later in TOS but with more subdued colors (greenish gold for command, blue for sciences and support, and salmon for everything else).

 

[Lord Garth FOI]

^^^ So the endless debates that have occupied the time of many a TrekBBS member about Starfleet as a non-military organization never existed?

People can debate whatever they like. Nonetheless, the possible non-military nature of Starfleet doesn't really rear its head in TOS (unless you count Kirk's remark late in the series - "Day Of The Dove" - that "we've been trained to think in terms other than war" as evidence). Things that Roddenberry wrote before and during TOS often reference military antecedents, including his suggestion in the TOS Writer's Guide that screenwriters for the show ask themselves whether character behavior would be plausible if the story were being told on a 20th century naval vessel.

Roddenberry began using terms like "paramilitary" to describe Starfleet in the 1970s.

++++++++++++++++++++++

Roddenberry wasn't as much of a hippee in the 60's and the men who forged the original trek including Gene Coon (who arguabley had as much to do with the vision of TOS as Roddenberry) were all WWII vets. TOS was clearly a Military -Western set in a deep space sci fi setting and the original notes back this up. Revisionist history and histrionics always loves to tell a different tale

 

[C.E. Evans]

^^^ So the endless debates that have occupied the time of many a TrekBBS member about Starfleet as a non-military organization never existed?

People can debate whatever they like. Nonetheless, the possible non-military nature of Starfleet doesn't really rear its head in TOS (unless you count Kirk's remark late in the series - "Day Of The Dove" - that "we've been trained to think in terms other than war" as evidence). Things that Roddenberry wrote before and during TOS often reference military antecedents, including his suggestion in the TOS Writer's Guide that screenwriters for the show ask themselves whether character behavior would be plausible if the story were being told on a 20th century naval vessel.

Roddenberry began using terms like "paramilitary" to describe Starfleet in the 1970s.

++++++++++++++++++++++

Roddenberry wasn't as much of a hippee in the 60's and the men who forged the original trek including Gene Coon (who arguabley had as much to do with the vision of TOS as Roddenberry) were all WWII vets. TOS was clearly a Military -Western set in a deep space sci fi setting and the original notes back this up. Revisionist history and histrionics always loves to tell a different tale

It tends to happen with most long-running stuff. Essentially, they're making it up as they go along and inevitably changes are made that contradict with earlier material.

 

[The Wormhole]

It is true while watching TOS it's very clear, especially in the first season, that Starfleet is meant to be military. Unfortunately, they never explicitly stated this, and so when the modern day shows began claiming Starfleet wasn't military, it was easy to retcon this into TOS. Even Trek XI tries to dance around the issue by having Pike describe Starfleet as a "humanitarian peacekeeping armada." Which sounds to me like they were trying to say "non-military military" without resorting to that actual wording.

...it's unfortunately another example of the movie's desire to look good over making sense.

Yeah, like McCoy's aforementioned uniform variation in TOS. More important to look good in 1966 than to make sense.

McCoy's short-sleeve shirt was an alternate uniform, and he did wear the standard long-sleeve shirt which diaplayed his rank just as often if not more.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Starfleet is a military organisation: they have armed ships, a command structure and rank hierarchy, uniforms, and it has been seen many times that it is there to defend the Federation. The thing about Starfleet is that that isn't their primary/only function: exploration, scientific investigation, humanitarian aid, diplomatic contact, are all among their high-level priorities.

Anyways, back to the discussion: why have short-sleeved uniforms for women only? The miniskirts I can understand why Kirk and Spock won't be wearing them, but they're all buff chaps, surely they wouldn't mind flashing the biceps.