What's the difference between a starbase and a "deep space" station?

[t_smitts]

That the UFP or Starfleet would only be up to Deep Space 9, rather than DS 227 or 32596 or whatever, makes me think that these designations are actually short-lived and recycled.

That is, yeah, "deep space" in the name means "outside UFP proper", even if the relevant border happens to be within an hour's travel from San Francisco. But the UFP expands. So stations originally established in deep space by the above definition become stations within UFP space sooner or later - and the DS number is liberated for reuse. The DS installation then might become a starbase. Or then something else.

The idea of recycling DS numbers and reassigning them to some installation in a totally different section of the galaxy sounds like it would lend itself to some confusion.

As for starbases, we have seen all sorts. It's probably again more a question of location than of the nature of the facilities. A copy of a tiny relay station can be a starbase, or a vast mushroom can. Or then a location might be, even before the installation of facilities. "Measure of a Man" sees the establishing of a starbase with a very low number in the late 24th century, suggesting that whatever the SB number might be, it isn't an ordinal to denote order of construction.

I believe this was noted in the original "Nitpickers Guide" (I miss those), but I actually have an explanation for that. The base in "Measure" was explicitly said to be close to the Neutral Zone. My thought was that it is a replacement for a previous base, which was one of the targets of a then-unknown alien force in "The Neutral Zone".

Would there be starbases next to homeworlds? The point for founding the very first in ENT would have been to establish a base away from home, as home already had facilities aplenty. We never really hear of a starbase next to a homeworld - when we see an installation, it's just a base, and naturally enough, as it isn't out there at the stars but right here.

Yeah, the idea of starbases around all these core Fed worlds doesn't seem right. Establishing them further out, where they can be more of service to long-range vessels makes more sense to me.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

A deep space station is not in Federation territory.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

The idea of recycling DS numbers and reassigning them to some installation in a totally different section of the galaxy sounds like it would lend itself to some confusion.

Not really, you have a constantly updated directory that tells you Deep Space #### "Installation Name".

The "Installation Name" could stay the same, but the DS #### could change based on positioning.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

I suppose the main difference is that a star base is located near a star, while a deep space station is located in deep space.

 

[Oddish]

Does that mean that Deep Space 9 will get renamed when Bajor joins the Federation?

 

[Dumbbell]

A starbase is a port and support facility for starships. Starbases are planet-based and usually maintain a space station within orbit of the planet and within the extent of its atmosphere.

A deep space station is a space station maintained in outer space; that is, outside of any atmosphere.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Does that mean that Deep Space 9 will get renamed when Bajor joins the Federation?

There was a thread about that a while ago. https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/no-longer-deep-space-renaming-ds9.298006/

Bajor One or Bajoran Station One would be my preferred option.

 

[Oddish]

Probably one of those "resurrect it and the mods will get pissed off" jobs, buried in the archives.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Less than a year FWIW.

 

[Dumbbell]

There was a thread about that a while ago. https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/no-longer-deep-space-renaming-ds9.298006/

Except that the only way Deep Space 9 could no longer be considered a deep space station is if its orbit were relocated to within the reach of Bajor’s atmosphere.

Of course, the Bajorans can call it whatever they want, as did the Cardassians. But, the Federation designated it a deep space station because its orbit was not within the reach of Bajor’s atmosphere. It was in outer space, beyond Bajor’s atmosphere. That was why the Federation designated it a deep space station.

Compare Earth, with an atmosphere that extends up to 10,000 km from the surface of the planet, to its space station that is only about 400 km from the surface. If the space station were in outer space, beyond the reach of our atmosphere, then we could call it a deep space station or outer space station.

Similarly, Deep Space 9, at least at the time of Federation acquisition, was beyond Bajor’s atmosphere. It was in outer space.

If it were relocated to within Bajor’s atmosphere, then the “deep space” designation would be inappropriate, except that the popularly known name “Deep Space 9” might stick regardless.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Of course, the Bajorans can call it whatever they want, as did the Cardassians. But, the Federation designated it a deep space station because its orbit was not within the reach of Bajor’s atmosphere. It was in outer space, beyond Bajor’s atmosphere. That was why the Federation designated it a deep space station.

Nope, the name Deep Space Nine was attached while it was still in Bajoran orbit, it has nothing to do with its position within the Bajoran system, and given that the nearest Federation facility is a Starbase (I believe SB375), it doesn't seem to be related to its position relative to the Federation core systems either.

 

[Dumbbell]

Nope, the name Deep Space Nine was attached while it was still in Bajoran orbit, it has nothing to do with its position within the Bajoran system, and given that the nearest Federation facility is a Starbase (I believe SB375), it doesn't seem to be related to its position relative to the Federation core systems either.

Yes, it orbited Bajor. It orbited Bajor outside of Bajor’s atmosphere, which locates it in outer space, which is why it was called a deep space station.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

No... orbital is "near space", "deep space" is extra-orbital usually interstellar or intergalactic space in common usage.

By your logic, all space stations would be "deep space" stations, whereas most of them are instead starbases.

 

[Dumbbell]

A starbase is a port and support facility for starships. Starbases are planet-based and usually maintain a space station within orbit of the planet and within the extent of its atmosphere.

A deep space station is a space station maintained in outer space; that is, outside of any atmosphere.

 

[Timo]

This works just fine for TOS, where we see no space elements to the starbases our heroes visit (no, the "Ultimate Computer" space station is never called a starbase).

But if the comparison here is to DS9 the station and the show, rather than just to DS-K7, there's no excuse for ignoring the rest of Trek, and there starbases are predominantly outside atmospheres.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Dumbbell]

That does not change the fact that Starbase [Whaterver] in the middle of space is still a deep space station, regardless of nomenclature.

So the real question should be, Why would the Federation name a deep space station, “Starbase [Whatever]”?

It could be that a number of deep space stations were eventually able to offer services comparable to planet-based starbases. Eventually, the Federation may even have chosen to construct new deep space stations with the ability to offer such services. I can see why these deep space facilities might be called starbases akin to their planet-based sisters.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

That does not change the fact that Starbase [Whaterver] in the middle of space is still a deep space station, regardless of nomenclature.

I disagree less with that than your previous assertion that orbital stations are deep space stations, but IMO you're still misunderstanding the question...

 

[Timo]

If anything, we should dismiss the idea of "deep space station being the going terminology for exoatmospheric structures" simply because the heroes already readily use the simpler "space station" for this purpose. Clearly they have some type of non-deep-space-that-still-is-outer-space-proper in mind when adding "deep" for further distinction.

Since space itself offers little to separate shallow from deep, other than the chauvinistic distance-from-Earth thing, and since low orbit nicely counts as deep space for the purposes of DS9, we have to look for the distinction between shallow and deep elsewhere altogether. And "inside vs. outside of some arbitrary line" is the most basic way to do that, and also a very human(oid) thing to do. Borders are perfect for that purpose, being basic and arbitrary and ah so very human...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Since space itself offers little to separate shallow from deep, other than the chauvinistic distance-from-Earth thing, and since low orbit nicely counts as deep space for the purposes of DS9, we have to look for the distinction between shallow and deep elsewhere altogether. And "inside vs. outside of some arbitrary line" is the most basic way to do that, and also a very human(oid) thing to do. Borders are perfect for that purpose, being basic and arbitrary and ah so very human...

Actually, there are natural demarcations to seperate certain area's of space.

The UN Convention of the Law of the Sea defines the maritime borders all the many nation-state signees agreed to and the Continental Shelf is one of the methods for defining said borders.

Every Star System has a Heliosphere of some shape & form that surrounds and envelops the Star(s) & any Planetoids orbitting said Star(s).

So that becomes a "Natural Border" where a common Astro-Physical Phenomena can be used as a boundary line similar to how many Nation-States uses Mountains or Rivers as boundary lines or Continental Shelves for Oceanic Borders.

The Heliopause has notable measureable characteristics that even our old satellite probes like Voyager 1 can measure.

The space within the Heliopause can be equated to local Territorial Space for each Star System within our Galaxy while the space outside can lead to Open Space within the Galaxy.

Within the Milky Way, these larger Astro-Physical structures can be used as seperation.

The Galactic Halo demarcates the Ovaloid borders of the Milky Way Galaxy and probably has unique sensor readings that define the edge of the Milky Way Galaxy and the Deeper space between Galaxies.

The same applies to the "Thick Disk", "Thin Disk", "Galactic Bulge", & "Galactic Center".

There are natural Astro-Physical structures to demarcate things by.

And of course, the UFP has defined the 2D map of the "Thin Disk" section of the Milky Way into Quadrants.

But that's just the Local map of the "Thin Disk" and is seperate from the larger 3D map of local Galaxies.

So there are natural ways and non-natural ways to define things by if you want to.

I know I have for my 26th Century Head Cannon =D.

 

[Vale]

A deep space station is not in Federation territory.

This. There was a discussion on Reddit about this not too long ago and this was pretty much the conclusion reached. It perfectly explains why there's so many Starbases compared to Deep Space stations.

The alternative explanation was that Deep Space stations are a Federation designation for any station they administrate on behalf of other polities, but don't own. Deep Space 9 was Bajoran property; during TNG: "Encounter at Farpoint" the Bendii seem to be trying to get the Federation to commit to running Farpoint Station on their behalf, making it another likely Deep Space candidate, so it seems that it's a service the Federation is known to offer under the right circumstances.